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I don't think you read my comment. I in no way insinuated there was a question of degree, or that other genocides were "less" than that of the European Jews. I am certainly aware of the centuries-long genocide of Native Americans, and sincerely do not mean to belittle it.

However, you mention "millions" of Gays and Gypsies who were slaughtered along with the Jews. It's absolutely true that the Nazis targeted these groups and murdered a great many. But I don't see what purpose is served by talking about millions. That is not historical at all. Millions of Jews were murdered. The main thrust of the murderous Nazi impulse was directed towards the goal of exterminating the Jews.

Lastly, what do you mean by "Thou shalt not comment"?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 19th, 2006 at 12:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia: Death Toll of the Holocaust

  • 5.1-6.0 million Jews, including 3.0-3.5 million Polish Jews[9]
  • 1.8 -1.9 million Gentile Poles (includes all those killed in executions or those that died in prisons, labor, and concentration camps, as well as civilians killed in the 1939 invasion and the 1944 Warsaw Uprising)[10]
  • 200,000-800,000 Roma & Sinti
  • 200,000-300,000 people with disabilities
  • 10,000-25,000 homosexual men
  • 2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
Almost two million Poles, 400K Gypsies. Maybe not "millions" of gay men, but they were specifically targeted for extermination and the nazis killed all those they could get their hands on. The insistence on the 6 million ignores 2 million others who were systematically exterminated in the same locations because of their belonging to certain groups. The jews were not the only group that was specifically targeted for extermination.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 19th, 2006 at 12:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The jews were not the only group that was specifically targeted for extermination.
Although it is entirely possible that, had it not been for the decision to "find a final solution to the Jewish question", the machinery of extermination would not have been in place for the other groups, who would have just been killed by the conditions of slave labour in the concentration camps.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 19th, 2006 at 12:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only Jewish gay men were sent to the death camps. The high death rate of gay men had to do with their low status, not with their being "specifically targeted for extermination." In fact, some gay men won release from the camps ... by agreeing to be castrated and sent to serve in a Penal Regiment, where the death rate wasn't much lower than in the camps. And others were made guinea pigs in barbaric experiments to "cure" them and save their Teutonic genes for the Master Race.

Horrible as the persecution of gay men under the Third Reich was, it does NOT qualify as a Holocaust. Only about 50,000 of Germany's millions of gay men were imprisoned, and, as you point out, less than half of this number died.

I would also argue that the Nazis did not kill "all those [gay men] they could get their hands on." Not only did most German gay men survive the Nazi regime; Nazis never bothered to incarcerate even "known" Slavic homosexuals since there was no "danger" of their damaging the supposedly superior Aryan gene pool.
 

by Matt in NYC on Fri Jan 20th, 2006 at 08:41:41 AM EST
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I stand corrected. Thanks.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 20th, 2006 at 08:44:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was a little surprised to see the totals you list did not include non-Polish Slavs and Communists who I believe were slaughtered in fairly high numbers.
by observer393 on Fri Jan 20th, 2006 at 09:19:50 AM EST
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