What culture are you from? | 129 comments (129 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

little or no physical contact.

the fetishisation of virginity being at least as old as Christianity...

But, troubadours or not, I have the impression that marriage remained largely a business transaction until at least the beginning of the last century?

by Sassafras on Wed Nov 15th, 2006 at 05:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (4.00 / 4)

Most of christianity's horror of sex, and a lot of it's misogyny, is tracable to the Pauline/Augustine horrors of around the 300 or 400s. In fact it doesn't really establish itself properly until the Celtic church loses power entirely in about the 900s - I forget the exact dates - and Rome imposes celibacy (hah!) in the 1000s-1400s or so. (Do the eastern churches share the fear and disgust or is it restricted to a don't-do-it-outside-marriage-enjoy-it-once-married type thing like in Islam?)

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 15th, 2006 at 06:04:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (4.00 / 5)

I don't see fear of sex as Western so much as Christian. Roman Christianity was (and to some extent still is) a kind of extended pathological interlude in the Western tradition - the bastard offspring of a patriarchal Abrahamic and tribal tradition crossed with various shades of Platonism, and given an added boost with a shift towards good old fashioned oligarchic imperialism hidden under a pseudo-spiritual sugar frosting.

If I wanted to play devil's advocate (hmmm...) I'd suggest that it's actually based more on a middle eastern world view.

That's not quite fair because Rome and Greece had a notoriously patriarchal strand. But there was also a more open strand in certain times and places that has been very influential politically and socially in the West, but remains almost totally absent from the Abrahamic mindset even today.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Nov 15th, 2006 at 06:52:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 0)

The fear of sex is distinct from patriarchy - neither Judaism or Islam seem to have the feeling that sex is dirty in the way that Christianity had/has. The view that sex is a necessary evil is unusual, to say the least!

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 02:47:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 0)

neither Judaism or Islam seem to have the feeling that sex is dirty in the way that Christianity had/has.

Maybe not sex itself, but female sexuality. Remember the prescriptions for women having their period.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 03:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 0)

Is that about female sexuality or blood?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:03:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 1)

All righteous human actions, including sexual relations within the bonds of marriage, are considered to be a form of worship of Allah. There is evidence that the Prophet taught his followers that sexual relations between a husband and wife carried spiritual rewards-because sex sanctioned by law prevented the unlawful satisfaction of carnal desire.

fromThe Complete Idiot's Guide to the Koran by Shaykh Muhammad Sarwar and Brandon Toropov

So, by comparison to St Paul's rather grudging allowance of marital sex for those not strong enough to do without, a ringing endorsement.

by Sassafras on Fri Nov 17th, 2006 at 02:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 0)

It could be argued, obviously, that any society that tries to control sex by confining it to marriage is afraid of something.

But is it female sexuality per se, or an older, deeper fear of being biologically cheated?

by Sassafras on Fri Nov 17th, 2006 at 02:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feelings (none / 0)

Most of christianity's horror of sex, and a lot of it's misogyny, is tracable to the Pauline/Augustine horrors of around the 300 or 400s.

Some goes back two centuries further, to the gnostic schism, and the treatment of Mary Magdalene.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 03:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What culture are you from? | 129 comments (129 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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