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If you read french, I wrote Les dividendes enrichissent-ils les actionnaires ?.
BTW, does anyone know the tax treatment of share buybacks?
In short:
Because everyone can buy a share just at the end of the day before the dividend "ex-date" and sell it at the beginning of the next trading day while having gained the right to receive the full dividend.
So if the share closes at $100 and gives you a $5 dividend, if the share open at $100 every bozo on earth could earn $5 by buying then selling without taking any risk. So in practice, the share opens at $95.
For the shareholder: before $100 in one share, after $95 in one share and $5 in cash. Zero gain.
If you don't believe me, look at my french blog example: when microsoft paid a total $30 billion in dividends on the week-end after friday 12 november 2004. Shareholders gained next to nothing.
When dividends are paid, the share price is depressed in proportion to the size of the dividend, so the shareholder breaks even. If the dividend is paid in cash, the shareholder can buy shares with it, and if it's paid in shares the shareholder can sell them for cash. Or the shareholder can obtain a dividend even if the company doesn't give it out by, say, selling a few percent of his/her holding each year. It all boils down to the same thing.
I'm trying to find out how the process of periodic reward for investment has been subverted by speculation/liquidity (the dilemma).
And whether there are remedies. I'm thinking of the LLP model again. You can't be me, I'm taken
For the person who sells those shares, he of course has a taxable event, and will recognize long or short term capital gain, or capital loss,,,,,,depending on how long he has held the shares, and how the shares have performed in that period.
Option A: company declares the 6 millions profit, pays about 2 millions in taxes (assuming rate = 33%) and pays 4 millions to shareholders in dividends. (In most countries, this 4 million will also be taxed as income to shareholders.)
Option B: company buys 6 millions USD / 100 (average price) ~= 60 000 of its own shares and cancels them. Assuming the company will be able to turn in the same 6 millions USD profit next year and assuming a constant earning per share, the new 940 000 shares should be valued at 106.38 USD.
If I understand correctly what you and ATinNM are telling me zero taxes are paid by company in option B.
The shareholder in option A will pay near or no capital gain if he sells his share (initially bought at the beginning of the year) after the dividend, and in option B he will pay capital gain tax.
From the state point of view, seems to be close, a more accurate model (real taxation rates, interest rates, company valuation model taking into account profit taxes) would be needed.
Any reference?
If corporations pay tax only on profit, does this mean that they can use share buybacks to pay no tax at all? Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
Since you can't buy groceries with your shares, the shareholder wil have to sell, when he sells he will pay capital gain tax (or income tax), which can be more than company profit taxes.
If you bought at 100 and sold at 106, you make 6 in additional income which is taxed. If you hold on your share longer, you need to take into account risk-free interest rate, etc...
I don't know if retirement funds are taxed on capital gain, if not, we now know why they vote for share buybacks.
But, if your ready for this one, the US goverment, in its wisdom, allows corporations to put their own stock in their internal retirement plan. So when they buy back shares they also increase the estimated net worth of that fund as well. She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
By definition lending to any other entity will get a higher rate.
And of course banks take their margin for most products, I believe I would get interest of EURIBOR 3 or 6 monthes minus 15 basis point if I block money for the duration at my bank.
In option B neither the Corporation nor the investor has to pay taxes on the $.38 increase in share value. Focusing on the latter, no money has been "constructively received" by the shareholder thus there is no tax event.
In your example, the $.38 can be viewed, by the investor, as the monetarized value of a tax-free compounding rate which increases the Internal Rate of Return of the investment. (Does that make any sense?) She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
the difference comes with the shareholders. When the shareholder receives the dividend at the end of the year, he/she pays taxes at the dividend rate, now 15% in the US. The difference really comes for those shareholders who are long term investors, and don't want the annual dividend payments. If no dividend is paid, and the money is left in the company, and the company continues profit growth as you suggest, the individuals money grows without any of it being taxed. Then say at the end of 10 years he sells, he then pays a 15% capital gains tax--but all of "his earnings" in the company have grown without him paying the 15% tax on the annual dividend. So the 10 year holder not paying dividends, gets the full compounding effect on his portion of the earnings.
If he invested in an identical company that paid the dividend every year, he would pay the personal tax on the dividend each year, and thus lose the opportunity to compound his gains on the portion paid in taxes.
This is less of an issue in the US than it was in the past. So for example, 6 years ago the top federal income tax for individuals for ordinary income was about 40%, and that rate also applied to dividends. So this meant earnings were taxed at (using your example) 33% by the corporation,,,and then the dividend was paid after the corporate tax was taken out,,,,,and the dividend was taxed again at the 40% level. So just to play that out, if my portion of the corporate earnings was $10,000, the company was going to pay $3,333 in taxes to the government. Then if the company was paying all after tax earnings out as dividends, I would get the remaining $6,667 paid to me as a dividend, and I would pay another $2,667 to the Federal Government. So of my $10,000 portion of the earnings, I would be taxed twice and pay $6000 in total to the government, and receive only $4000--a combined tax rate of 60%. And in New York or California, state tax would take at least another $667.
This "double taxation" effect on dividends caused companies to reduce their dividend payouts as a % of after tax earnings from something like 3.5% in the '70's to 1.2% in the early 2000 (from memory, but it was dramatic). The view of companies was that it was better for the shareholder if the money was left in the company, not double taxed as a dividend, and then the shareholder could sell shares when he needed money, and the capital gains tax rate was lower than the ordinary income tax rate, so the shareholder did better. Now at lower and equal dividend and capital gains tax rates of 15%, this is less of an issue, and companies are gradually starting to pay more in dividends.
Here is what I know about taxation in France for 2006 income and profits:
Company profit taxation is at 33.33%.
Marginal effective income tax rate is at 40% (kicks in after 66 679 euros of income).
When you receive a dividend, up to 1 525 euros per person, you can remove 40% of the amount, the rest is counted as income.
Some fixed interest products (including state debt) has a marginal rate of 27% (if you choose "prélèvement libératoire" as most "rich" people do, otherwise it is taxed as income - interesting for low revenue).
French "Plan d'Epagne en Action" (financial vehicle where you can put pretty much whatever you want: shares, indices, ...) capital gain is taxed at 11% after 5 years, but there is a investment cap at 132 000 euros per person (current value can be above).
The big french saving product is "assurance vie", after 8 years capital gains are taxed at 7.5% for the part above 4600 euros per person per year (if I understand correctly, I have no such product).
Unsurprisingly "assurance vie" is the most popular financial product in France, and I guess managers of such funds encourage share buybacks.
it does look like for truely long term investing, l'assurance vie would be good, particularly if the investment was in well diversified funds, such as index funds. Investing in individual companies would be problematic, because their fortunes may turn downward and you have to sell early. but investors that have invested over truely long periods of time in the S&P 500, for example, have done pretty well,,,,so 10,000 EU may double every 7 years, and at the end of 21 years be worth 80,000--taxed at only 7.5% would leave one with 74,750. or better yet, invest 10,000 this way at 30 years old, and cash in at 65--theoretically it doubles 5 times to 320,000, minus the 7.5%. that is "theoretically" of course.
I didn't realize the top french ordinary income tax rate was 40%, if I understand you right. the US is 35%, but not much difference. I think the french rate takes effect at a lower income, however.
thanks again, i enjoyed the comments and links.
The legislator passed a law to cap the amount of exemption at some number, but constitutional court rejected the article as "too complex" (it was the same as a cap of taxes on income at 60% which was not censored by the same court - a real scandal).
So take the frenhc marginal tax rate with a grain of salt.
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