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Well, if one cannot say with certainty what is the center, one must not be very certain about the boundaries either.

Not necessarily. As I explained in that thread, "center" is not unambiguous - it could be either be a territorial averaging, or an averaging of the borders, and both of the previous depend on what shallow water areas you include into the landmass.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 14th, 2006 at 05:25:18 AM EST
As I also said in another thread, in the past it is quite likely that "the center" was found by balancing a cardboard cut-out on a pin, without much regard for which projection was being used.

From this earlier diary, it is clear where the centre of Europe is...

or maybe not so clear...


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2006 at 05:32:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if we take OMI maps for a definition of Europe, Spaniards and our Norwegian friends will wonder at what passes for Europe on the current maps on the website BBC took its pictures from:



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 14th, 2006 at 06:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, Europe is a subcontinental mass bordered in the east by the Ural Mountains south to the Caspian sea and the western shore of the Caspian down to the Casucasua mountains, where the borderline goes west until it hits the Black sea.

Everything else is defined by natural shorelines.

the Americas are divided between North America (the US and Canada) and Latin America (everything south of same)

In North America everybody speaks english (including in Quebec where they speak French in order to piss off the federal government).

In Latin America, everyone speaks Spanish, except for Belize, and the Gianas. Brazil allegedly speaks portuguse, but it's actually closer to spanish.

The Caribbean is technically part of North America except for the Greater Antillies, which are part of Latin America.

by messy on Tue Feb 14th, 2006 at 08:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about Hawaii?
by asdf on Tue Feb 14th, 2006 at 09:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
North America includes Mexico.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 03:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Curacao they speak Papiamento - a mix of English, Dutch, Spanish, French, Portuguese and African.

In Suriname they speak Taki Taki - a mix of English, Dutch, Spanish, French, Portuguese and African.

In the French Antilles (Guadaloupe, St. Martin, Martinique) they speak French (patois). Parts of Dominica also use a French Patois.

Brazilian Portuguese is not closer to Spanish than it is to European Portuguese.

Soon to be dead - Native languages are still spoken in North America.

Algic Amerindian Language Family

http://www.native-languages.org/linguistics.htm#tree

Amerindian Language Families

Actually, Amerindian languages do not belong to a single language family, but 25-30 small ones; they are usually discussed together because of the small numbers of native speakers of the Amerindian language families and how little is known about many of them. There are around 25 million native speakers of the more than 800 surviving Amerind languages. The vast majority of these speakers live in Central and South America, where language use is vigorous. In Canada and the United States, only about half a million native speakers of an Amerindian tongue remain.

Abnaki-Penobscot, Algonquin, Arapaho, Atikamek, Blackfoot (Siksika, Blackfeet), Cheyenne, Cree, Etchemin, Gros Ventre (Atsina), Kickapoo, Lenape (Delaware), Loup A/Loup B, Lumbee (Pamlico, Croatan), Maliseet-Passamaquoddy, Menominee, Mesquakie-Sauk (Sac and Fox), Miami-Illinois, Michif (Metis), Mi'kmaq (Micmac), Mohegan/Pequot, Mohican/Mahican, Montagnais Innu, Munsee, Nanticoke, Narragansett, Naskapi Innu, Ojibwe (Chippewa, Anishinaabemowin), Potawatomi, Powhatan, Shawnee, Wampanoag, Wiyot, Yurok; possibly Beothuk (Red Indian)

Athabaskan (Na-Dene) Language Family
The Athabascan, or Na-Dene, languages are spoken from northwestern Canada and Alaska south to the Rio Grande. They include:

# Athabaskan Languages

# Eastern Apache
# Navajo (Dine)
# Western Apache
# Northern Athabaskan Languages
# Alaska-Yukon Athabascan Languages
# Degexit'an (Ingalik)
# Gwich'in
# Han
# Holikachuk
# Koyukon
# Lower Tanana
# Tanacross
# Tutchone
# Upper Tanana
# Upper Kuskokwim
# Southern Alaskan Athabascan Languages
# Ahtna (Ahtena)
# Tanaina
# British Columbia Athapaskan Languages
# Babine
# Carrier (Dakelh, Yinka Dene)
# Chilcotin
# Northwest Canadian Athapaskan Languages
# Kaskan Languages (Nahanni)
# Kaska
# Tahltan
# Tagish
# Beaver (Dane-zaa, Dunneza)
# Dene (Chipewyan)
# Dogrib
# Sekani
# Slavey (Dene Tha)
# Clatskanie
# Sarcee (Tsuu T'ina)
# Tsetsaut
# Pacific Coast Athabaskan Languages
# Oregon Athabaskan Languages
# Galice
# Tolowa
# Tututni-Coquille
# Upper Umpqua
# California Athabaskan Languages
# Hupa
# Mattole
# Wailaki (Sinkyone/Lassik)
# Kato
# Eyak
# Tlingit
# Haida

# Northern Caddoan Languages
# Pawnee-Kitsai Languages
# Arikara
# Kitsai
# Pawnee
# Wichita
# Southern Caddoan Languages
# Caddo

# Eskimoan Languages
# Yupik Languages
# Alaskan Yupik
# Gulf Yupik (Alutiiq/Sugpiaq)
# Siberian Yupik (Yupit/Yuit)
# Inuktitut-Inupiatun (Inuit)
# Aleut (Unangan)

The Hokan languages are spoken in the southwestern and west coast US and in northwestern Mexico (Baja California and Sonora). They include:

# Yuman Languages
# Delta-Californian Languages
# Cocopa
# Kumiai (Diegueno)
# River Yuman Languages
# Maricopa
# Mohave
# Quechan (Yuma)
# Upland Yuman Languages
# Havasupai-Walapai-Yavapai
# Paipai (Akwa'ala)
# Cochimi
# Kiliwa
# Esselen
# Karok-Shasta Languages
# Karok
# Palaihninan Languages
# Achumawi
# Atsugewi
# Shasta
# Chimariko
# Pomo Languages
# Western Pomo Languages
# Central Pomo
# Kashaya
# Northern Pomo
# Southern Pomo
# Eastern Pomo
# Southeastern Pomo
# Northeastern Pomo
# Salinan-Seri Languages
# Chumash
# Salinan
# Seri
# Tequistlatecan Languages
# Lowland Chontal of Oaxaca
# Sierra Chontal of Oaxaca
# Washo

Iroquoian languages are spoken in the eastern US and southeast Canada. They include:

# Northern Iroquoian Languages
# Central Iroquoian Languages
# Tuscarora
# Nottoway
# Lake Iroquoian Languages
# Mohawk-Oneida Languages
# Mohawk
# Oneida
# Seneca-Onondaga Languages
# Cayuga
# Onondaga
# Seneca
# Huron/Wyandot
# Laurentian
# Susquehannock
# Southern Iroquoian Languages
# Cherokee (Tsalagi)
Kiowa-Tanoan languages are spoken in the American Southwest and Southern Plains. They include:

# Kiowa
# Tanoan Languages
# Tewa (Tano)
# Tiwa
# Towa (Jemez)

The Mayan languages are spoken in Guatemala and southern Mexico, in the Yucatan peninsula. Mayan languages include:

# Cholan Languages
# Ch'ol
# Chontal de Tabasco
# Chorti
# Huastecan Languages
# Chicomuceltec
# Huastec
# Kanjobal-Chujean Languages
# Chujean Languages
# Chuj
# Tojolabal
# Kanjobalan Languages
# Jacaltec
# Eastern Kanjobal
# Western Kanjobal
# Mocho
# Quiche-Mamean Languages
# Ixil-Mamean Languages
# Aguacatec
# Ixil
# Mam
# Tacanec
# Tectitec
# Greater Quichean Languages
# Kekchi
# Pocom Languages
# Pokomam
# Pocomchi
# Quichean Languages
# Achi
# Cakchiquel
# Quiche
# Tzutujil
# Sacapultec
# Sipacapense
# Uspantec
# Tzeltalan Languages
# Tzeltal
# Tzotzil
# Yucatecan Languages
# Itza Maya
# Lapandon
# Maya Chan
# Mopan Maya
# Yucatan Maya

The Mixe-Zoque languages, Mixe, Zoque, and Popoluca, have not been definitively linked with any of the larger Mesoamerican language families. They are spoken in Mexico and include:

# Mixe
# Zoque
# Popoluca

poken in the American southeast, Muskogean languages include:

# Eastern Muskogean Languages
# Muskogee (Creek)
# Central Muskogean Languages
# Alabama
# Appalachee
# Koasati
# Mikasuki
# Western Muskogean Languages
# Chickasaw
# Choctaw

Oto-Manguean languages are spoken in central Mexico and include:

# Amuzgo
# Chiapanec-Mangue Languages
# Chiapanec
# Chorotega
# Chinantec
# Mixtecan Languages
# Cuicatec
# Mixtec
# Trique
# Otopamean Languages
# Chichimec
# Matlatzincan
# Mazahua
# Otomi
# Pame
# Chocho-Popolocan Languages
# Chochotec
# Popolocan
# Ixcatec
# Mazatec
# Zapotecan Languages
# Chatino
# Zapotec

he relationships between the Penutian languages of the Pacific Coast are less certain and less well understood than in some of the other Amerindian language families. Some linguists consider the Penutian languages to constitute one rather divergent language family; others consider them a group of four to seven language families making up a broader linguistic stock; others consider them several distinct language families that should not be considered together at all; and some even think the Penutian languages should be grouped together with the Uto-Aztecan and/or the Mayan languages. In any event, languages that are usually discussed under this rubric include:

# Chinookan Languages
# Chinook
# Chinook Jargon
# Kathlamet
# Wasco-Wishram
# Maidu
# Oregon Penutian Languages
# Coast Penutian Languages
# Coos
# Siuslaw
# Alsea
# Kalapuya
# Takelma
# Plateau Penutian Languages
# Klamath-Modoc
# Sahaptian Languages
# Nez Perce
# Sahaptin Languages
# Umatilla/Tenino
# Walla Walla
# Yakima
# Tsimshianic Languages
# Nisga'a-Gitxsan
# Tsimshian
# Utian Languages
# Costanoan (Ohlone)
# Miwok
# Yokuts
# Molale
# Wintu

Spoken in the northwestern US and southwestern Canada, Salish languages include:

# Coast Salish Languages
# Central Salish Languages
# North-Central Salishan Languages
# Comox
# Pentlatch
# Sechelt
# South-Central Salishan Languages
# Straits Salishan Languages
# Klallam
# Northern Straits Salish (Saanich)
# Halkomelem
# Nooksack
# Squamish
# Lushootseed (Puget Sound Salish/Skagit/Snohomish)
# Twana (Skokomish)
# Tsamosan Languages
# Inland Tsamosan Languages
# Lower Chehalis
# Quinault
# Maritime Tsamosan Languages
# Cowlitz
# Upper Chehalis
# Tillamook
# Interior Salish Languages
# Northern Interior Salishan Languages
# Lillooet (St'at'imcets)
# Shuswap (Secwepemctsin)
# Thompson (Nlaka'pamux)
# Southern Interior Salishan Languages
# Coeur d'Alene
# Flathead Salish/Kalispel/Spokane
# Okanagan (Colville)
# Wenatchi (Columbia)
# Nuxalk (Bella Coola)

iouan languages are primarily spoken in the American Great Plains, and the far south of Canada. They include:

# Western Siouan Languages
# Missouri Valley Siouan Languages
# Crow
# Hidatsa
# Mississippi Valley Siouan Languages
# Mandan
# Dakotan Languages
# Assiniboine (Nakota)
# Stoney (Nakoda)
# Dakota-Lakota
# Dhegiha Languages
# Kansa
# Omaha-Ponca
# Osage
# Quapaw (Alkansea)
# Chiwerean Languages
# Chiwere (Iowa-Otoe-Missouria)
# Ho-chunk (Winnebago)
# Ohio Valley Siouan Languages
# Biloxi
# Ofo (Ofogoula)
# Tutelo (Saponi)
# Eastern Siouan Languages (Catawban)
# Catawba
# Woccon

Spoken throughout the western US and Mexico, the Uto-Aztecan languages include:

# Northern Uto-Aztecan Languages
# Numic Languages
# Central Numic Languages
# Comanche
# Panamint
# Shoshone
# Southern Numic Languages
# Kawaiisu
# Southern Paiute (Ute)
# Western Numic Languages
# Mono
# Northern Paiute (Bannock)
# Takic Languages
# Cupan Languages
# Cahuilla
# Cupeno
# Juaneno
# Luiseno
# Serran Languages
# Kitanemuk
# Serrano
# Gabrielino
# Tataviam
# Hopi
# Tubatulabal
# Southern Uto-Aztecan Languages
# Aztecan Languages
# Nahuatl
# Pipil
# Taracahitic Languages
# Guarijio
# Mayo
# Opata
# Tarahumara
# Yaqui
# Tepiman Languages
# Pima Bajo
# Tepehuan
# Tohono O'odham
# Corachol Languages
# Cora
# Huichol
# Tubar

Spoken along the coast in the northwestern US and southwestern Canada, Wakashan languages include:

# Northern Wakashan Languages
# Haisla
# Heiltsuk
# Kwakiutl/Kwak'wala
# Southern Wakashan Languages
# Makah
# Nootka

Other North American Indian Languages
Not all Native American languages have been classified into a language family. Some may be language isolates (unrelated to any other language), others may be unclassifiable due to lack of data or insufficient attention from linguists. Native North American languages whose relationship to other Amerindian languages is still uncertain include:
# Cayuse
# Keres
# Kootenai
# Quileute
# Tonkawa
# Wappo
# Yuchi
# Yuki
# Zuni

Other Central American Indian Languages
Not all Native American languages have been classified into a language family. Some may be language isolates (unrelated to any other language), others may be unclassifiable due to lack of data or insufficient attention from linguists. Native Mesoamerican languages whose relationship to other Amerindian languages is still uncertain include:
# Purepecha
# Tol      

Other South American Indian Languages
Not all Native American languages have been classified into a language family. Some may be language isolates (unrelated to any other language), others may be unclassifiable due to lack of data or insufficient attention from linguists. Native South American languages whose relationship to other Amerindian languages is still uncertain include:
# Andoque
# Camsa
# Cayubaba
# Itonama
# Mura-Pirah
# Paez
# Pankararu
# Puelche
# Puinave
# Ticuna
# Trumai
# Tsimane
# Tuxa
# Warao
# Vilela
# Yamana
# Yuracare

Atlantic Free Press

by ghandi (expatforums@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 06:44:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the list.

I can't help but wonder if a link wouldn't have sufficed, though.  Some of us don't have the fastest connections ...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 08:25:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the Americas are divided between North America (the US and Canada) and Latin America (everything south of same)
Geographically, Central america is North America.

As for the "everyone speaks" this or that language, refer to ghandhi's post.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 06:59:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in Quebec where they speak French in order to piss off the federal government

I think this comment is just too funny for me to be offended by it. (Sorry Migeru, I support seperatists.)

Isn't everyone who speaks French just doing it to piss the rest of us off? LOL.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 08:30:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know whether I'd call it funny or embarrassing.
Sorry Migeru, I support seperatists.
Explain this?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 08:40:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, just from reading some of your comments on the other threads, and here, I got the sense that, well, you don't.  Or at the least you think it's a nuisance.  Sorry if I misread you.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Wed Feb 15th, 2006 at 02:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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