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Russia is not really part of Europe.
With opinions like this being throuwn around, it's no wonder all the Russians disappeared.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 06:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a bit like The Economist with its energy price figures.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 06:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What did I say to deserve such a nasty insult? We're not talking facts here, only opinions!

I'll stick with it: Russia does not have a European telephone prefix - it has its own, like any self-respecting continent. Russia is big enough to be something else altogether, and it is a European power, but it is not in Europe.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 06:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll stick with it: Russia does not have a European telephone prefix - it has its own, like any self-respecting continent.

What are you talking about?

There are no continental prefixes for line telephones. If you meant zones, who cares - the rest of Europe is on two zones already, and so is the rest of Asia. Meanwhile, looking at the contry code for base stations of wireless phones, Russia is in the European zone.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 12th, 2006 at 07:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You do remember that they only showed up when they felt really insulted. This must not be enough to make them reappear (or maybe we need someone else to add on to my ignorant insults).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 07:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd really like someone to define, definitively, "Europe," before we go making statements of that nature.  

Jerome's "opinion" is in no way is offensive to Russia.  Whether Russia is in Europe or not is an age old question and last I heard, no one has had the last word on it.  Not only do many Russians not consider Russia implicitly part of Europe, many Europeans would absolutely shudder at the thought of including Russia in the EU.  

So to be blunt, it is convenient to include Russia in "Europe" when attempting to de-ghettoize the former Communist nations of Europe (saying it is not correct to call it "Eastern Europe" which I think one can only find offense with due to the political and socio-economic implications of the label, not the geographic ones.)  But when it comes to accepting Russia with open arms into the European political club, suddenly we can all agree that Russia is it's own thing.  And I think, frankly, Russia would prefer to have it that way.  And I know they play the European card for adcancing their own intersts too.

It's just perverse that we would be asked to accept outright that Russia, any part of it, is de facto part of "Europe."

Is "Europe" geographical, political, cultural, what?  Not the topic of my diary but I do think the issue needs to be addressed.  If only to illustrate the problems with making such assertions.

To me, Europe is a goal, the EU is a governing entity, and everything else is up for debate.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 09:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I never heard anyone doubt the geographical meaning of Europe. In geography, Europe is the continent delimited on the East by the Ural mountain and river, the Caspian Sea, and the Caucasus. (Check Wiki.) The cultural realm is another thing, but let me point at Turkey, another country mostly in Asia but partly in Europe, whose joining is also discussed.

The EU is yet another thing, where I must mention that the EU existed long enough on a much smaller part of Europe, and people in many of its members weren't exactly happy about some or all of the 'new members'. Furthermore, there are other international organisations - for example the Council for Europe, the OSCE, and of course the 'most important', UEFA (football) and Eurovision (silly song contest), both of which include both Turkey and Russia.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 12th, 2006 at 07:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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