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Interesting metaphors, those: argumentation as advertising and the "market of ideas". Not everyone shares them. I find them annoying.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 4th, 2006 at 06:36:03 PM EST
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I find them - well - fundamentalist.

There is no 'marketplace' for ideas because ideas don't cost anything. No one buys and sells ideas - except in the limited commercial setting in which IP is sometimes bought and sold.

You can agree or disagree with an idea at no direct personal cost. You can persuade or dissuade others at no direct personal cost.

So how is this a market?

And as Poemless pointed out, there is a huge difference between commercial advertising, which has more in common with the pro-party posters and slogans you'd find in the old Soviet states (only the people are better dressed and the colours are brighter), and public debate and discussion, which is based on persuading opponents by engaging with their ideas directly.

As opposed to yelling in their ear with a constant barrage of jingles and catchy video sequences.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 07:50:40 AM EST
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. — George Bernard Shaw


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 07:56:37 AM EST
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Absolutely, I consider the ideas to be the locomotive of human progress and development. And they definetely cost-can you estimate i.e. how much the idea of beverage like coca-cola brought back with respect to profit.

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel
by Chris on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 08:04:49 AM EST
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Even in the case of IP it's generally not the idea but the legal right to use the idea that is sold.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 07:57:42 AM EST
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Not only that, the legal right to communicate the idea is also restricted, which is contrary to the nature of ideas.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 08:00:45 AM EST
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this is what I mean by a totalising ideology.

a totalising ideology is one that captures all metaphorical space in discourse as well as control of physical structures and processes in facespace.

this is colloquially expressed as "if all you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail."

I could get into conceptual connections between totalising ideology and monocropping, etc.  -- but perhaps the most succinct subversion is from our old friend physics:  if you try to understand light as particles it doesn't really work, and if you try to understand it as waves it doesn't really work.  both metaphors need to be in play at once, mutually contradictory and mutually necessary.  which is a feature of complex systems...

but we'll be off to Happy Planet of the Verbositoids if I don't slam on the brakes here...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:09:32 PM EST
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üüps!

I was replying to Migeru, who opined:  Interesting metaphors, those: argumentation as advertising and the "market of ideas". Not everyone shares them. I find them annoying.


The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:11:39 PM EST
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I'm so disappointed, I wanted to see the Happy Planet of Verbositoids.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:27:35 PM EST
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Regarding marketism as a totalising ideology, some people in the European left used to quip "we want a market economy, but not a market society".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:30:12 PM EST
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and now we're back to the separation of Commerce and State...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 08:01:35 PM EST
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