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Still, I think that in many respects, all of "new Europe" taken together is less influential than the UK by itself. On the other hand, each of them gets a vote. So I don't know. We are talking about gradual historical development here. The breakup of the UK would be a watershed, I think. A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns
But there is more behind the espansion to the East than just US inducement. There was a very real fear that, if the new democracies in Central and Eastern Europe were not "validated" by achieving EU and NATO membership (and, here, Atlanticists were successful in making people believe the couldn't have one without the other), involution and a rise of authoritarian and populist politics would result. Whether or not that's true, it's the way it was perceived across Europe, both East and West.
IMHO only Slovenia and the Czech Republic were ready for accession in 2004, politically and economically. But you couldn't have CZ without Slovakia, Poland and Hungary. The Baltic states were probably ok economically but there are serious unsolved human rghts issues surrounding their large Russian populations, and now the EU "owns" the problem. They and Cyprus show that the idea that the EU could more effectively deal with problems in member states than in candidate states is a delusion. And the same delusion has been applied to Romania and Bulgaria with their "conditional" accession this year (supposedly they could be suspended after 1 year, but that's exceedingly unlikely). Finally, Malta is a microstate island nation, more catholic (read: socially backwards) even than Spain, Italy, Ireland or Poland, and smaller than Luxembourg, and I question the wisdom of effectively giving them veto power over key EU developments.
The last 15 years of EU leadership have given us the "growth" of the EU and the constitution fiasco. Not much to be happy about. "It's the statue, man, The Statue."
Make that Slovenia only. The situation of the Czech Roma is not dissimilar to the problem with thew Baltic states. Then again, in the EU-15, there was Greece, and in terms of malfunctioning political system, Italy. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
They and Cyprus show that the idea that the EU could more effectively deal with problems in member states than in candidate states is a delusion.
It's not delusion: it works. These problems are headaches, sometimes long and painful ones, but they do not turn into international crisis, hot or cold wars. just that is worth it, even if it's never counted as an achievement.
Just like Italy having the same interest rates as Germany: sure their debt and economy is a problem, but it's not a crisis that destabilises several countries.
How quickly we forget what the alternative looked like. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
What exactly is the "easy" policy towards Russia that you're hinting at? "It's the statue, man, The Statue."
more seriously, the center and left may occasionally be a bit touchy about Germany but they're in favour of good relations and the idea of Germany as a close ally. It's an attitude thing. Germans don't go around celebrating their conquest of Poland and wondering why the Poles aren't properly grateful.
To take another example from one of their columnists, Father Jerzy Bajda:
History is bracketed by this `great war' which is waged beyond historical time between Satan and the Virgin who is the living image of the Church.[...] Man has merely been able to observe the visible aspects of thiss history, in which man, under the influence of the Evil One, chose sin, falsehood, hatred, battle, confusion, division, and war. One might even say, though one can't be certain, that all wars ever thought between nations and states are in some measure the work of Satan and fully reflect his aims. [...] . It is horribly tragic fact that the nation which was chosen in order to serve God in the realization of His plan, has become in a large degree Satan's accomplice. Christ, revealing their sin (for they had decided to kill Him), said with the utmost clarity: "You have the devil for a father". It was a severe judgement, but a true one, for the Jews in seeking to kill Christ, "fulfilled the aims of Satan". The hatred of Christ inspired by Satan in the leadership of the Jewish nation, immediately turned against the Church, as can be seen in the persecution of St. Stephen and then in all subsequent persecutions. They were always instigated by the Jews and fanatically carried out by them. It is for good reason that the Book of Revelations speaks of the "Synagogue of Satan". Seventy years ago a book was published in Warsaw which contains valuable materials about the systematic campaign of the Jews to conquer the world through both perfidious and revolutionary means.
[...]
. It is horribly tragic fact that the nation which was chosen in order to serve God in the realization of His plan, has become in a large degree Satan's accomplice. Christ, revealing their sin (for they had decided to kill Him), said with the utmost clarity: "You have the devil for a father". It was a severe judgement, but a true one, for the Jews in seeking to kill Christ, "fulfilled the aims of Satan". The hatred of Christ inspired by Satan in the leadership of the Jewish nation, immediately turned against the Church, as can be seen in the persecution of St. Stephen and then in all subsequent persecutions. They were always instigated by the Jews and fanatically carried out by them. It is for good reason that the Book of Revelations speaks of the "Synagogue of Satan".
Seventy years ago a book was published in Warsaw which contains valuable materials about the systematic campaign of the Jews to conquer the world through both perfidious and revolutionary means.
The Great War (PDF - Polish)
Poland, being sanwiched between Russian and German (whatever one'd call it) Empires dreamt for senturies to become an Empire too but failed.
The EU may be seen as some German Empire's extension - a long-hated enemy and then there's another nasty one -Russia (sure, all, we Russkie may think of is swallowing and enslaving poor little Poles). So where to go and whom to love? Another Empire, the Anglo-Saxon one, powerful enough to feel protected from those nasty two.
LOL. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
So from Poland's perspective, they are the big boy who can protect them from their perceived enemies. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
Are the Poles really so much in denial of the basic facts of history? That would make them little different, in terms of their connectedness to reality, from the neocons. A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns
Liberation is nice, but it doesn't outweigh the rest. The Czechs, Hungarians, and Slovaks only have the latter part of this history, so less suspicion. (The Hungarians got the Russians in 1848, but they left immediately and two decades later they got the Ausgleich)
It is interesting that you write about these things that happened to Poland as very real and significant, whereas in an earlier exchange you said, "All nations are social constructs. Period." The usual view in philosophy is that either you are given an access to reality through your individual experience (this is empiricism), or reality is "socially constructed", in which case there are many different, equally valid (or invalid) realities. The philosopher who worked out how social constructs can be objectively true was Hegel. So I would suggest that you look at him more carefully than you have up until now. That would allow you to view the experiences of Poland as objectively true, while still being social constructs.
I might as well mention at this point that both my parents are Russian and were born in Russia soon after the revolution, although they grew up outside the Soviet Union. A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns
Virtually everyone in Europe and the US has some sort of national identity, and that includes those who dislike the whole category. Take DoDo for example, his feelings about Horthy or Kossuth are, I am certain, of a different nature than about Antanas Smetona or Garibaldi. On the other hand a few centuries ago most Europeans had no such identity. National identity is a relatively new phenomenon. At the same time most had some sort of estate consciousness, most don't now.
Well, I must admit I don't have much feelings regarding Horthy, but Kossuth is another thing, but that's probably because I am related to him. I don't know Antanas Smetona, but do Garibaldi, and until a year ago better than all 1956 revolutionaries, which says something. The single historical figure I must have read the most on is Jeanne D'Arc.
I'd say yes there is an over-representation of historical/cultural influences in me of the places I have been longer at, and that much of these influences were nationalised (e.g. a state TV, a dish provided...), but to call that a national idenity, I think is forced. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Maybe I'm reading things into what you write, but my impression is that it is there, even if in an attenuated, rejected form. As the what it should be called - I don't know. Presumably at least as a child you felt Hungarian to some extent as the default, almost automatic way children assume things. That wouldn't necessarily been the case with Germanness as a foreigner, though it could have been (I have no way of knowing).
In my case, while I developed a strong feeling of attachment to Geneva and to French culture in the broadest sense of the word, to the extent of feeling a sense of being at home when I visited Quebec in college, I never got any Swiss or French national identity - I was always a foreigner.
I will reply in three directions.
The first 'default' I personally felt was actually something else, as I gained self-consciousness when in Yugoslavia. (One of my first surviving memories of thoughts is actually looking out of the window and thinking that 'this is my homeland'.) Later on, I did develop a feeling of Hungarianness, albeit not as default but school education and partly family, and the rejection (not of Hungarianness but the whole frame of reference) started to kick in very early (first grade, effects of thinking about some books I read). I never could 'do' collective pride and shame even to the extent you describe, though I discovered that I have more of it than realised, as Euro-booster (back when I battled freepers).
I mention that what I diary or comment on ET is not a random selection of thoughts. I do aspire to bring unique material, or to cover things not covered, be it trains or obscure history or local politics. Given the current readership of ET, within the scope of my cultural influences, that also makes me the reporter for Hungary. And thus writing stuff is usually also an educational experience for me, and funnily enough, I never learnt as much about all things 'Hungarian' than when searching for stories or researching for ones I found in the last year and half...
On a second level, my case of having lived within multiple 'nations' and thinking about categorisations as small kid rather than torture hamsters may be not common, but I view the more general 'objective' identities (say Polish-speaking intelligentsia) vs. sense of identity issue you described differently. I do think that there are multiple collective identities in most people's minds, to the extent of feeling pride and shame and having in-group/alien distinctions and codewords and solidarities, even if they are 'aware' of only a singular national identity. So I see casting things in the national framework as a deeper denial (or more generously, oversimplification) than just of differing individual senses of a nation by the same name. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
btw, how much of this sort of stuff do you get in Hungary?
On the post-communist loyalty to the US, it's not just switching to another big brother, it was also a way of refuting the perception of themselves as Russian puppets.
I'm not sure I understand the question -- do you mean to I hear of the Polish troubles in the local media, is there open anti-semitism in the media, or far-right-media--mainstream right collusion?
For the first, the answer would be yes, but not much -- the Archbishop issue was all over the news, but not too deeply.
For the second, yes there is, but the local little Goebbelses use a more veiled and less often religious language, and have a much more self-contradictory worldview, especially in terms of anti-semitism. Recently I talked to my brother who also knows some far-right types from work, and got similar impressions of a schisophrenic state of mind: these guys constantly talk about Israel (as if it were a domestic issue) and always note the Jewishness of an evil liberal media personality or Soros et al, but also proclaim that anti-semitism is a liberal slur on them and they have 'their' Jews.
Yes, far-right (even anti-semitic) Jews. Including one of the most notorious little Goebbelses, and there is also that interesting guy who was born to a Hungarian Jewish communist emigrée in South America, lived through the Pinochet coup and returned home then, where he volunteered to the secret service, met Carlos the Jackal here, got disillusioned when seeing what happens in Yugoslavia and became a mercenary for the Croats, later sought Jewish roots in Israel but found the I/P conflict, then came back to Hungary to become a speaker on Israel at meetings of the MIÉP party... *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Yes, far-right (even anti-semitic) Jews.
Reminds me of an article I read about jewish israeli youths of russian ancestry who stood before court for desecrating a (jewish) cemetary in Israel with nazi-symbols. It appeared both the court and the journalist was a bit confused of what to make of it.
I did not save the link though. Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
But either way, one shouldn't be that surprised: that generalising about groups of people (groups which can't even be properly defined) is false also means that prejudices aren't uniform either, so there may be prejudiced people some of the other prejudiced include in the Evil Group while they themselves don't. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
But either way, one shouldn't be that surprised: that generalising about groups of people (groups which can't even be properly defined) is false also means that prejudices aren't uniform either, so there may be prejudiced people some of the other prejudiced include in the Evil Group while they themselves don't.
And of course you are right. Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
Now the name already (goj = non-Jew in Yiddish) is already schisophrenic. But when journalists asked them about anti-semitism, they said no they aren't, "we have six Jewish members"! Bend your head around that: they take their name from Yiddish, a word to signify exclusion, but they aren't anti-semites as they involve Jews, but they keep account of the exact number of them... *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Isn't it?
Still, to be frank, I should admit that under current conditions, personally I do equate the two.
It is an interesting question why—when the American break for independence with its proclamation of universal human rights that, as far as I know, had some inspirational influence on the French to launch their own revolution—America has come to be the agitator for everything regressive. The only thing that comes to my mind at the moment is that Americans, because they were all immigrants, were never able to develop a deep sense of community, one that spanned the entire nation. And that inevitably lead to capitalism, with its indifference to the problem of the existence of poverty in a society of great wealth, developing unchecked, like a cancer (the New Deal and other expressions of the progressive impulse in America notwithstanding). A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns
That it has come in use after the end of the cold war suggest to me that the term (and its counterpart) are acknowledgements of the "American Empire" with the question of if you are for or against it.
I think someone accused of being "anti-american" should defend themselves with explaining that they are anti-liechtensteinian. That all there actions are determined by their hatred for everything from Liechtenstein and that their single-minded purpose is to crush that nation and everything it stands for. If delivered the right way it should expose the underpinnings of the term "anti-american" (and thus also "pro-american"). (If one lives in say Austria, Switzerland or Liechtenstein one might want to choose Andorra instead.)
</rant> Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
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