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Yes, but if you come here to the new members, the picture gets blurred. Here a significant part of the Atlanticists is on the mainstream left, though that left is nothing like the Western left. This mainstream left is in large part ex-communist, and in my view just switched which Big Brother to align towards. Meanwhile, as Marek pointed out, in the more extreme regions of the right, which here is usually sovereignist and sees the US as the source of unholy (even ungodly, heh) Western influence or a vehicle of the Great Jewish Conspiracy, there can be strong anti-Americanism, in fact stronger and much more visible than on the non-mainstream left (unfortunately).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This also skews the perspective of left-liberals. The smear that anti-neoconservatism equals anti-semitism is laughable in Western Europe or the US. Not the case in Poland. The folks I'm quoting are relatively mainstream, in the sense that they are leading commentators for one of the most influential media outlets in the country, one whose recent anniversary celebration drew top clerics and government politicians, and whose director is the PM's closest media ally (though the recent spat over Archbishop Wielgus may have strained that relationship)

btw, how much of this sort of stuff do you get in Hungary?

On the post-communist loyalty to the US, it's not just switching to another big brother, it was also a way of refuting the perception of themselves as Russian puppets.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:28:06 PM EST
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I forgot about the Russian puppet factor, though today it is valid only from Poland northwards.

btw, how much of this sort of stuff do you get in Hungary?

I'm not sure I understand the question -- do you mean to I hear of the Polish troubles in the local media, is there open anti-semitism in the media, or far-right-media--mainstream right collusion?

For the first, the answer would be yes, but not much -- the Archbishop issue was all over the news, but not too deeply.

For the second, yes there is, but the local little Goebbelses use a more veiled and less often religious language, and have a much more self-contradictory worldview, especially in terms of anti-semitism. Recently I talked to my brother who also knows some far-right types from work, and got similar impressions of a schisophrenic state of mind: these guys constantly talk about Israel (as if it were a domestic issue) and always note the Jewishness of an evil liberal media personality or Soros et al, but also proclaim that anti-semitism is a liberal slur on them and they have 'their' Jews.

Yes, far-right (even anti-semitic) Jews. Including one of the most notorious little Goebbelses, and there is also that interesting guy who was born to a Hungarian Jewish communist emigrée in South America, lived through the Pinochet coup and returned home then, where he volunteered to the secret service, met Carlos the Jackal here, got disillusioned when seeing what happens in Yugoslavia and became a mercenary for the Croats, later sought Jewish roots in Israel but found the I/P conflict, then came back to Hungary to become a speaker on Israel at meetings of the MIÉP party...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As for the third, very much so. When Orbán was PM, and was in the let there be a two party system phase, creating a right-wing media network was one of the goals. And he wasn't picky in choosing whom to support. In one infamous interview, he gave the direction to his followers by proclaiming that the newspapers/magazines he reads are two notorious far-right ones. For fairness, there still doesn't exist a fully integrated right-wing media, but there is no far-right/centre-right delineation, and the Fidesz politicians studiously avoid any clear statement or act against both far-right politicians and media.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 07:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, far-right (even anti-semitic) Jews.

Reminds me of an article I read about jewish israeli youths of russian ancestry who stood before court for desecrating a (jewish) cemetary in Israel with nazi-symbols. It appeared both the court and the journalist was a bit confused of what to make of it.

I did not save the link though.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 07:10:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that could be more counted as a silly prank. A more strange and much graver case I read of long ago was that of a female Jewish Gestapo officer who hunted Jews in Nazi Germany (sorry, don't remember any details).

But either way, one shouldn't be that surprised: that generalising about groups of people (groups which can't even be properly defined) is false also means that prejudices aren't uniform either, so there may be prejudiced people some of the other prejudiced include in the Evil Group while they themselves don't.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 07:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I remember it, the youths were quite serious in their neo-naziness. You know (euro) far-right uniform, nazi symbols and such.

But either way, one shouldn't be that surprised: that generalising about groups of people (groups which can't even be properly defined) is false also means that prejudices aren't uniform either, so there may be prejudiced people some of the other prejudiced include in the Evil Group while they themselves don't.

And of course you are right.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 07:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so many Israelis question the "Jewishness" of many of the  Russian immigrants. Some extremists claim that as many as half of the immigrants don't have a drop of Jewish "blood." And even the Israeli Bureau of Statistics acknowledges that 23% of the Russians are not Jewish even by the lax standards of the Law of Return.
by Matt in NYC on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 01:50:14 AM EST
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Regarding far-right schisophreny about anti-semitism, I forgot the best example. Last year during the riots here, I wrote about the gang of 'Goy Motorists' who turned up at the far-right protests (showed them here).

Now the name already (goj = non-Jew in Yiddish) is already schisophrenic. But when journalists asked them about anti-semitism, they said no they aren't, "we have six Jewish members"! Bend your head around that: they take their name from Yiddish, a word to signify exclusion, but they aren't anti-semites as they involve Jews, but they keep account of the exact number of them...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 02:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, I learned about the number of Jews among the mighty 7 original Russian oligarchs (pre-1998 ones) from NYT! It was surreal, especially after the perestroika years when only the "black hat" guys were counting Jews in science, administration, and history...
by Sargon on Fri Jan 19th, 2007 at 05:42:26 AM EST
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