Would Scotland's leaving the union be good for Europe? | 83 comments (83 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

I disagree (4.00 / 4)

They and Cyprus show that the idea that the EU could more effectively deal with problems in member states than in candidate states is a delusion.

It's not delusion: it works. These problems are headaches, sometimes long and painful ones, but they do not turn into international crisis, hot or cold wars. just that is worth it, even if it's never counted as an achievement.

Just like Italy having the same interest rates as Germany: sure their debt and economy is a problem, but it's not a crisis that destabilises several countries.

How quickly we forget what the alternative looked like.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 1)

You are thinking Germany-France. But there making peace was the basis for going union. This is no longer valid when you think Greek Cyprus-Turkish Cyprus/Turkey or Baltics-second-class-Russian-citizens/Russia (to make things worse, in both cases with the patron outside of the EU), or Hungary-Romania, or Central European majority populations-Gypsies.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

No, I am speaking specifically of what's happening right now in these countries: no international crisis. Sure, simmering stuff, but it hasn't gotten out of hand. Thanks to the EU.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 06:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

Simmering was the status quo, pre-EU already. In the candidacy period, there was at least some progress, some lessening of the simmering. I can't see what effect of the EU membership you see.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Jan 17th, 2007 at 07:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

And why do you not credit the EU during the candidacy period?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 01:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 1)

I do, all I'm saying is that it is delusional to expect significant progress when the EU Becomes tied to one of the parties and gives it the power to use tge issue in horse-trading at the Council.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 03:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

You misunderstand, I did, and that's the very point! A longer candidacy period would have been more beneficial, a candidacy period extending until the conflict parties hammer out lasting solutions fitting into the EU framework. The prize at the end of the road (e.g. sitting on the table, be recognised, and get the money) was and would have been a motivating factor, and if the top accession negotiators and the decisionmakers in the Council had made it more clear to the leaders, the spirit of the (old) EU(EC) would have been adopted to a fuller extent.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 04:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

Can you tell me what progress has been made on the second-class status of Russians in the Baltic states (or the open display of fascist, WWII paraphernalia), or on the Roma in Czechia or Slovakia, since accession? Has it even been an issue?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 05:51:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 1)

With emphasis on: after the accession. I note though that at least one the open display of fascist, WWII paraphernalia in the Baltics front, there was progress - as was discussed on ET, last year's veteran march was banned and then police stopped those who still came.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jan 18th, 2007 at 10:30:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Would Scotland's leaving the union be good for Europe? | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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