ET Network thoughts. | 47 comments (47 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Quick comparison

Google http://www.google.com/translate_t

Le stelle

Le stelle
non hanno fidanzato.

Tanto belline,
le stelle!
Aspettano un rubacuori
che le porti
ad una sua ideale Venezia.

Tutte le notti s'affacciano
alle grate
- oh cielo di mille piani! -
e fanno segnali lirici
ai mari d'ombra
che le circondano.

Ma attente,ragazze,
perchè quando morirò
vi rapirò una dietro l'altra
sul mio cavallo di nebbia.

The stars

The stars
they do not have fiancèe.

Much belline,
the stars!
They wait for rubacuori
that the ports
to one its Venice ideal.

All the nights s'affacciano
to the grates -
oh sky of thousand plans! -
and they make marks them lyric
to the shadow seas
that they encircle to them.

But careful, girls,
because when morirò
you rapirò one behind the other
on my fog horse.

Babelfish: http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Le stelle

Le stelle
non hanno fidanzato.

Tanto belline,
le stelle!
Aspettano un rubacuori
che le porti
ad una sua ideale Venezia.

Tutte le notti s'affacciano
alle grate
- oh cielo di mille piani! -
e fanno segnali lirici
ai mari d'ombra
che le circondano.

Ma attente,ragazze,
perchè quando morirò
vi rapirò una dietro l'altra
sul mio cavallo di nebbia.

The stars

the stars
do not have fiancèe.

Much belline,
the stars!
They wait for rubacuori
that the ports
to one its Venice ideal.

All the nights s' point out
to the grates -
oh sky of thousand plans! -
and they make marks them lyric
to the shadow seas
that they encircle to them.

But careful, girls,
why when morirò
you rapirò one behind the other
on my fog horse.

Conclusion: they're doing the same thing and have the same vocabulary (almost.) Someone who can read (but maybe not easily write) in two languages could tidy up (though it will read stilted.) Someone who doesn't know the translation language could write (maybe have set phrases?):

"If you'd like a translation of any of the words, let me capire."

(It might get very confusing...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 07:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Capisco? (none / 1)

Good idea to try this, thanks. I'd say one is using the other... It's not surprising they'd do something similar, but this... is surprising!

Really, isn't there some monkey business going on? <cue rg to post pic of monkey> ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 10:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Capisco? (none / 1)

Probably the same underlying translation engine: this stuff is hard.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 11:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Capisci? (none / 1)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 01:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (4.00 / 3)

This shows that these free automatic translators should really not be used by anyone who doesn't write well in the target language, and even then there is a high likelyhood of an absurd expression in the target that can only be corrected by being able to at least read the source.

Though it might be useful to be able to translate a foreign comment in order to reply to it, by just pressing a button instead of having to go to an external site.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 11:15:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (4.00 / 3)

Forget about automatic translators for now. They're dumb and they massacre the target language, making any content look ridiculous.

I think we have two separate problems here. One is content and link integration. The other is language translation. Some random thoughts:

1. The person writing a diary does not have to be the person translating the diary. We already have people who translate outside content because they think it's interesting enough to share. Translating internal content is the same problem.

So all it takes to spread good content around is some volunteers willing to translate - say - a French posting into German if they find it interesting enough.

2. Network integration bvy degrees is probably not a a problem that can be solved.

I'm tempted to axe the idea of differentiating local and and remote blogs altogether. How about amalgamating incoming streams into a user-selected ÜberBlog, with language, source and locality selected as a tag/search attribute/whatever?

If you're sharing logins, sharing Wikis, and sharing content, you might as well go the whole hog and just merge everything. Use one distributed interface for access, and make it customisable with a bit of localisation for different reader groups.

This gives you instant syndication. Authors can decide which tags and labels they release diaries with. Readers can decide which streams they want to read, based on those tags and labels - which could include a blog name, a language, an author, any of the above, or something else entirely.

The 'blogs' are now search criteria entered via login portals. But in theory any diary can be shared across the network instantly.

And the ET hive mind sits in the middle, amalgamating and distributing everything. (Or rather, organising the amalgamation.)

It's round about here that someone is going to say 'But Scoop doesn't do that.'

Indeed, it doesn't. But if we're going to start networking things, is Scoop still the right platform for that? If we start building something ambitious with it now, will there be problems building the network later?

If you give readers the choice to decide which tags they want to read, it's much more useful to them than giving them a choice about which blogs they want to read. It also minimises duplication, because the diary can be in one place instead of copied between many.

And I don't necessarily want to have to log into a different blog to read and comment on an interesting diary. (Etc.)

I can see some problems with this approach - will it delete the community feel? - but I think it's at least worth considering as an option.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 01:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (none / 0)

It is still a problem...if you decide not to translate by default waiting for someone else to translate .. i it will probably lead to what afew fears... desintegration of the net.
I think it is a good idea.. but I do not see it happening because of the time needed to to the program and also I am not sure a first-time visitor will not find it very complex..Some kind of fixed structure with on-spot explanation is my preferate...

So I would put something beside the rec dsicussions like "Do you want to star one?".. or the salon logo at the beginning.. do you want to join?"

The same with feed of news... a default set-up.. and if in the future we can change the code and make it personal... it will be ok.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 01:33:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (4.00 / 2)

1. I think the net only disintegrates if the content is considered non-local. For example I wouldn't expect someone in turkey reading TBB to care about a local protest in Swindon.

ET is international(ish) by definition because the content is either explicitly European or has a Euro angle.

Not every blog needs to have a scope that's quite this wide. You can easily split content into International, Euro-wide, national, local and subject-specific issues, and let people pick and choose which they want to read. If someone on the Euro side finds some local content interesting, they'll very likely translate enough of it to make it worth discussing.

2. You don't need to confuse the user. You can have a themed log-in portal that picks out one stream - e.g. energy news - by default. Then once they're in they can read a note that says 'By the way, did you know there's more...?' and they're off and running.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 at 06:12:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (4.00 / 3)

I see the logic and like this (second part), but, beyond the need for a more comprehensive CMS than Scoop, I would in fact be a bit worried for the community feel.

Metaphors I have used when thinking/talking about this are that ET should be the crossroads, the meeting-place, the agora. How to automatise individual choice while still respecting that ethos?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 02:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (none / 1)

I enjoy how they translate poems, leaving in the original the words the software can't translate...sometimes it creates its own poetry. Maybe it's how it doesn't reconstruct the grammar.

BELLA

Bella,
como en la piedra fresca
del manantial, el agua
abre un ancho relámpago de espuma,
así es la sonrisa en tu rostro,
bella.

Bella,
de finas manos y delgados pies
como un caballito de plata,
andando, flor del mundo,
así te veo,
bella.

Bella
con un nido de cobre enmarañado
en tu cabeza, un nido
color de miel sombría
donde mi corazón arde y reposa,
bella.

Bella,
no te caben los ojos en la cara,
no te caben los ojos en la tierra.
Hay países, hay ríos,
en tus ojos,
mi patria está en tus ojos,
yo camino por ellos,
ellos dan luz al mundo
por donde yo camino,
bella.

Bella,
tus senos son como dos panes hechos
de tierra cereal y luna de oro,
bella.

Bella,
tu cintura
la hizo mi brazo como un río cuando
pasó mil años por tu dulce cuerpo,
bella.

Bella,
No hay nada como tus caderas,
tal vez la tierra tiene
en algún sitio oculto
la curva y el aroma de tu cuerpo,
tal vez en algún sitio,
bella.

Bella, mi bella,
tu voz, tu piel, tus uñas,
bella, mi bella,
tu ser, tu luz, tu sombra,
bella,
todo eso es mío, bella,
todo eso es mío, mía,
cuando andas o reposas,
cuando cantas o duermes,
cuando sufres o sueñas,
siempre,
cuando estás cerca o lejos,
siempre,
eres mía, mi bella,
siempre.

BEAUTIFUL

Beautiful,
like in the fresh stone
of the spring, the water
opens a wide foam lightning,
thus is the smile in your face,
beautiful.

Beautiful,
of fine hands and thin feet
like a silver pony,
walking, flower of the world,
therefore I see you,
beautiful.

Beautiful
with a copper nest entangled
in your head, a nest
color of shady honey
where my heart burns and rests,
beautiful.

Beautiful,
the eyes in the face do not fit to you,
do not fit the Earth eyes to you.
There are countries, there are rivers,
in your eyes,
my mother country is in your eyes,
I walk by them,
they give light to the world
by where I walk,
beautiful.

Beautiful,
your sines are like two breads
done of earth gold cereal and moon,
beautiful.

Beautiful,
your waist
made my arm like a river when
it spent thousand years through your sweet body, beautiful.

Beautiful,
There is nothing like your hips,
the perhaps Earth
somewhere has hidden
the curve and the aroma of your body,
perhaps somewhere
beautiful.

Beautiful, my beautiful,
your voice, your skin, your nails,
beautiful, my beautiful,
your being, your light, your shade,
beautiful,
all that is mine, beautiful,
all that is mine, mine,
when you walk or you rest,
when you sing or you sleep,
when you suffer or you dream,
always,
when you are close or far,
always,
you are mine, my beautiful one,
always.

Bad for essays, though.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 01:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET Network thoughts. (none / 1)

The grammar is so bad it's not even funny. The English may sound good to you, but it doesn't say the same as the original.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 at 06:02:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ET Network thoughts. | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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