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(I think dependable base load power is a red herring.  It really assumes a lifestyle...sorta like "Well, everyone has to commute to work at the same time, don't they?"  Well, er, no.)

(Not to mention all the great ideas coming up about how to store energy to create a steady base.  I liked Migeru's idea of a huge spring being cranked down--or was it a huge weight on a spring being bent over?  All the technophiles should be raring to go...so much new technology! and loads more on the cusp of discovery.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 08:53:57 AM EST
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I don't think it's quite a red herring, but I find the way it's been accepted as conventional wisdom slightly strange. It works on the assumption that we can't and won't do anything different with power usage than we have been doing.

Perhaps we should add a fifth element to Jérôme's Creed: smart power usage - using and/or storing sporadic power when it's available, cutting back when it's not. Maybe we can recharge our cars and delivery vans when it's sunny, windy or when the tide's running.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 08:57:32 AM EST
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It works on the assumption that we can't and won't do anything different

That's where the ideological edge lies, I think, both in the "can't" (a form of conservatism with a small c) and the "won't" (big business lobbying / human nature arguments)

Perhaps we should add a fifth element to Jérôme's Creed: smart power usage

Excellent.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 09:00:40 AM EST
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And there is a subject that has been aching and calling me for practically over a year now. The coverage on that item has been small - but I also think it's a subheader under what Jerome lists as "conservation".

The wars of coal vs nuclear and the wars between several renewables have always sparked the largest and  most intense debates.

Why has the debate on conservation remained so limited? Perhaps because no debate is needed and everyone sees it as a common wisdom? Then where can I find the plan of attack? Because I hardly can't. It's all scatter what I have found so far.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 09:43:15 AM EST
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Because there's no "magic bullet" there - solutions will come from all of us making efforts that we are motivated to do.

The closest to a "magic bullet" is the gas tax, or carbon tax, solution, as it gives a clear price signal to everybody. But many things are more complex than that, or require other kinds of efforts

  • information on energy efficiency of appliances
  • construction standards
  • tougher recycling obligations
  • more up-to-date information on prices of things like power, road availability, etc...

so that we have the icnentive to make the right choices, and that we are able to make them.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 10:57:08 AM EST
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The big question that has stuck with me: where and what are those efforts and how can I - as an energy consumer - quickly implement them when so motivated?

Just like the patchwork of solutions for renewables, it's clear to me that there is similarly no "magic bullet" solutions when it comes to conservation and that here too a patchwork needs to welded. I should've been clearer on that - but it's wortwhile to have you stress that point. Yet that patchwork of today is what I called scatter. There's little structure - unless a new revolution has taken place which I've completely missed.

It comes back to markets and politics. The solutions you listed are (mostly) inherently political by nature because they are regulation-driven. Market forces -will- provide more conservation techniques and als more accessible (and reliable??) information on those conservation techniques when the energy crunch is in full swing. I, however, would prefer to stay ahead of the latter development (market forces), while in the meantime continue to ply the former (politics and regulation measures).

The Energy Conservation Wiki/Platform that Migeru came up with somewhere before last year's summer is what I have in mind when writing this.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 12:18:35 PM EST
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Perhaps we should add a fifth element to Jérôme's Creed: smart power usage - using and/or storing sporadic power when it's available, cutting back when it's not. Maybe we can recharge our cars and delivery vans when it's sunny, windy or when the tide's running.

I suppose that's included in energy efficiency/conservation, but maybe it needs to be a separate item, to flag that idea that using the same energy for the same purpose in different circumstances can make quite a big difference.


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 09:29:34 AM EST
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I know people who live on a small island in the Pac NW.  their community owns a generator.  they have electricity 12 hours a day -- about 8am to 8pm iirc.  they live comfortable lives...

where is it written that except for emergency rooms and the like, we have to have 24x7 electricity on demand?  we lived w/o it for 20,000 years, and now all of a sudden it is the end of civilisation if we have to fit our electric consumption into some kind of a schedule?

this idea that every human epoch prior to our own fossil binge was unrelievedly dark, dirty, smelly, cold, miserable and stupid I find historically naif and more than a wee bit arrogant.  we can't even match the lifespans of peasant farmers in the Caucasus, and we're the all time hotshots and pinnacle of human evolution?  but I bet the Romans thought the same, between swigs of Pb contaminated drinkies...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 at 09:25:11 PM EST
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