Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
"You are misunderstanding me again (it must be my English!). I'm not saying that the US was AGAINST recognition and FOR training the KLA. I'm saying the US was FOR recognition, and FOR training the KLA albeit not publicly at first."

It's not a failure of your English. It's a failure of your logic. We are discussing here whether the US was initially predisposed to the breakup of Yugoslavia. The fact that they recognized the secessionists later while the KLA was being trained is not being disputed at all. This is the essence of my very first post on this subject.

You write: "I know that the training of the KLA came later - I mentioned it to support my thesis that the US has been supportive of secessionist movements throughout ex-Yugoslavia.""

How does that support your thesis if it came later AFTER the US recognized the new republics? It doesn't support your thesis at all.

"Europe, on the other hand was AGAINST recognition, except for Germany:"

I just linked to you in the previous post NY Times articles which showed that the US was AGAINST recognition even as the entire EC was for it.

Please explain to me why it benefits the US to refuse recognition even while Ireland and Norway elect to recognize?

by Upstate NY on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 12:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In that case, that leaves us with two options:
  1. US-Serb negotiations that were underway and that could have provided the US with a much better deal than the one it struck with Bonn - yes we're talking about spoils.
  2. US-German disagreement about spoils.

What's your theory?
by vladimir on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 12:40:57 PM EST
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All this language is so vague. Spoils what where?

What deal with Bonn?

What are you talking about?

by Upstate NY on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 12:59:41 PM EST
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If I understand vladimir correctly, the claim is this:
Let's go back to 1991. The CIA plans for the breakup of Yugoslavia since the 70s.The "right" people are promoted to power - or supported by the US and Germany once they made it to the top. The arms are delivered in the 80s. Everything's ready to roll, when all of a sudden, the Soviet Union collapses. This provides an opportunity to the US to extend its influence over all of ex-Yugoslavia... which it tries to do, putting it at odds with Germany, on the other hand, which wants to consolidate its influence over an independent Slovenia and Croatia. There's disagreement about spheres of influence and who gets what. Political maneuvering ensues.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 at 08:05:07 AM EST
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You remind me of those who split the world up into two kinds of people.

Me, I also do that on occasion: there are two kinds of people in this world, I say, the kind of people who split the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

by Upstate NY on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 01:01:18 PM EST
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What is vague? That a huge chunk of the industrial and services sectors in all ex Yugoslav republics were "privatized" mostly to Western business concerns at rock bottom prices? No Sir, from Serb mines to the Croat tourism sector - it's well documented. That's what I call the spoils of war. Is it vague that place is teeming with foreign occupation forces? No Sir - it's well documented and I call that spoils of war too.

If you are referring to my lack of "proof" regarding US German collusion, yes it's vague. Tudjman wasn't a buddy of mine. Neither was Slobodan. James & George even less. No, I don't have first hand accounts of the politics at play in January 1992 and this is not the kinda stuff you find on the newspaper stands. But that wasn't even the subject of my thesis.

by vladimir on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 02:14:06 PM EST
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You still haven't answered the basic question: Why, when th entire EC had recognized the former republics, was the US still holding out?
by Upstate NY on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 02:54:00 PM EST
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oh, let me see now. well.
can you repeat the question ?
by vladimir on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 03:58:12 PM EST
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Why, when the entire EC has recognized the ex-Yugo republics, did the US refuse to recognize them?
by Upstate NY on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 04:58:15 PM EST
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Now why on earth would you want an answer to a question like that?
by vladimir on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 at 02:02:50 AM EST
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