Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
I would prefer digging some deep holes and pomping  energy form mother earth.

i think the geothermal power is an elegant way to go :


by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 06:07:45 AM EST
I am not so hot about this anymore after they started a project here in Basel. Well, we had a series of earthquakes because of that and they had to stop the drilling.

I linked to this story in the Salon, but I seem to be a little dense in using the search program, can't find it anymore - it was this year anyway.

by Fran on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 06:26:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We discussed it on January 8.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 06:34:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How did you find that??????? :-) and thanks!
by Fran on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 06:49:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I searched the archived comments for "earthquake".

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 06:50:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We never came around to resolve that one, did we? I'm still not sure -where- they're actually drilling. If you look at their cross section (small pdf!) , I get the feeling they could have sunk shafts down onto the major fault surface. Does anyone know what the "ungef. Position Riehen 1 + 2" means - that's the critical area.
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 07:52:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would mean approximate (ungefähr) position, right?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 07:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay! Riehen, Voltaplatz and Otterbach are the towns/villages, I guess. I still don't get at what locations they are drilling. If they sunk a shaft at Voltaplatz and Otterbach and the geology is correct, there is little reason to be mistrusting. Riehen is the interesting one.

Right. Found it.

The test sites are at Otterbach, they drilled 2 wells, with the first one not successful so they had to start all over again.

From this graph it seems they are drilling the real thing at the Voltaplatz. (Fran, any chance you could confirm this?) So they're not on top of the brittle fault, but I'm really curious if people know how the main fault starts behaving at greater depth...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 10:27:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks Nomad, I have to find out. The Voltaplatz is a place/square more or less in the middle of the city and Kleinhüningen is a part of the city, more on the outskirts. As far as I know Otterbach is the "Zoll" between Weil und Basel.
by Fran on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 10:30:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it is not that urgent anymore. The earth here has calmed down again, no more quakes the last few weeks.
by Fran on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 10:27:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I question the rationality of anyone using the term "mother earth" in anything but a sneering sarcastic manner. Anthropomorphizing complex abstract systems such as the biosphere is a sign of mental handicap even more surely than praising God and talking in a hick accent.

Geothermal's economics haven't changed substantially in a very long time. Furthermore, it requires water as input, which automatically nullifies it as a serious contender.

It's the same reason why conversion of tar sands and oil shales isn't feasible as a large-scale project. Because water is an incredibly scarce and precious resource. And you can forget seawater since it's highly corrosive and would clog up the works with salt.

Heat pumps, yes. Geothermal, no.

Here's your handy cheat sheet:

  • anything that uses biology is going to be expensive
  • anything that uses freshwater is going to be impossible to scale
  • anything that uses seawater is going to be destroyed
  • anything that produces little, dilute or intermittent energy is not industrially sustainable (this includes wind)
  • conservation means poverty, mass starvation and death

Trains, transit, district heating, heat pumps, are all excellent energy para-technologies. You'll notice that they fulfill all of the criteria set above. But none of them qualify as a source of primary energy. And what's the only source of energy that fulfills all of the above criteria? You have 1 guess because this one's easy.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 07:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not be so definitive, guys who are investing on it are not totally stupid, and water is not scare every where, only drinking water is.

we will find a solution with Gaia.

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 08:14:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Water may not be everywhere but human beings are everywhere and electricity needs to follow them. Not just everywhere but at all times. If 50% (the theoretical maximum which wind can provide) isn't good enough then what makes you think 1% is?

And what makes you think the guys who are investing in geothermal (or wind or anything else really) are looking for a way to power humanity? They aren't. They're looking to make some money, that's all.

Your Gaia obsession is not endearing in the least. It only makes me feel like I'm being massively stupid for taking a schizophrenic seriously. Please stop or tell me I'm wasting my time.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 09:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
richardk this is a interesting dairy and would be even more so if you please could stop insulting people who do not fit into your way of seeing the world.
by Fran on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 10:03:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you described a right-winger as uncaring of justice, would this be an insult? No, it would be a tautology. Describing magical thinkers ("intuitionists") as mentally handicapped is not an insult, it's a tautology. None of this is "my way of seeing the world", what it is is FACT. Verifiable and documented.

And I find YOUR way of seeing the world, and especially your way of degrading documented facts to the status of mere opinion, to be insulting in the extreme. What does it say about you if you claim to care so much about insults yet you freely offer them to others? It says you're a liar and a hypocrite. But then that's the problem with being an intellectual relativist, it's an inherently hypocritical point of view. Because it's self-contradictory nonsense and the mere pretense that it's meaningful is automatically a lie.

You might also like to consider your double standard of liking a diary I wrote with the express goal of destroying lies and prevarication, of destroying the cornucopians' and marketroids' "way of seeing the world" and then of whining and complaining when I turn around and do the same thing to your friends. You don't get to use truth selectively, as a weapon aimed only at your enemies. And if you choose to then don't expect me to be so shallow.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 11:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Richard, your face is going red.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 11:49:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you should put one or two opale under your pillow to reduce your stress.
by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 at 02:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Occasional Series