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So getting down to personal policy we can control:  Is your shopping car-driven?  Where do you shop for occasional items?  Where do you not?  How often do you buy items that you find are poor quality and have to buy again?  How much e-shopping do you do?  Comparisons, ideas, improvements, solutions, ...revolutions?

I'm lucky enough not to have to own a car. I used to rent a car once a year or so to stock up on bargains at Ikea and the like, but I'd now rather have all my teeth root-canalled than spend more than fifteen minutes in a car. So I honestly can't remember the last time I was (shudder) in a "mall."

I hardly ever "go shopping," but I still end up shopping for food, toiletries, office and house supplies pretty much every day. There's almost nothing that I can't find -- at a decent price -- within a ten-minute walk from my apartment. And that ten minutes flies by because I get to observe the most fascinating and astounding collection of people (and dogs -- I don't own one but I've come to love observing these amazing creatures, genetically engineered just to love and entertain human beings, and I give thanks every day that I can see so many of them so easily -- and without actually having to feed or clean up after one of them!) on my way to and from the stores. Some people might find it inconvenient that you have to go to four or five small or medium-sized shops to find all the things you'd get "in one stop" in most places, but I love the additional exercise and the extra people-(and dog-) watching, not to mention the chance to be outdoors and  appreciate Manhattan's unparalled panoply of street trees (almost 200 different species) and flowering plants. They don't call New York a Natural Wonderland for nothing! ;-)

Another great pleasure: contact with working people from Central America, East Asia, the Middle East and Africa (pretty much in that order in my neighborhood). They give me hope that America may one day, when WASPs are firmly in the minority, become a kinder, more humane country.

I can't think of anything that I buy that is "poor quality and have to buy again," except maybe printers and most Microsoft programs. And I do a lot of e-shopping, especially for books, recordings and big-ticket items like electronics. As for "revolutions," well, all the trends seem to be going the other way, but I think the world would be a much happier place if more people could live in the more civilized big cities.

by Matt in NYC on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 12:02:26 PM EST
Do the shops south of Houston still exist?  I used to go clothes shopping there in the 70s when the area was the last stop for the production of the Garment District.  The idea being it was better to get something than nothing; "something" meaning "not very much."

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 12:39:33 PM EST
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Is that the street you're thinking of? Some of the old stores are still there, but they seem to be giving way to the kind of weird but entertaining boutiques you used to see in Soho and Alphabet City. Also several of the trendiest, hardest-to-get-a-table-in restaurants in town, including one very, very pricy place where, as one reviewer has it, "Much of the cooking challenges diners to break with their food-pairing constructs." (Foie gras topped with quince yogurt? Why not! Or do you have a craving now and then for a pork belly stuffed with papaya? You'll find it there -- and your meal won't cost you and your companion much more than $300.)

Actually, it's still a great neighborhood, but the gentrification is a little scary.

by Matt in NYC on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 01:40:53 PM EST
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Sounds familiar, been a while ya' know, but it was several streets not just one.  Sigh  "The Old Days will never return" & etc. etc. etc.

My experiences in Alphabet City (in the 70s) doesn't quite reach to include boutiques and snooty culinary establishments purveying undigestible meals.  I presume the local HQ of the NYC Hell's Angels has re-located from 2nd St?  ;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 03:19:15 PM EST
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Yes, "Orchard Street" is sort of shorthand for the whole area, but it was the street for "ladies' fashions." Stanton Street -- immortalized in Dave Tarras's "Chasidic in America" -- was where there were at one time 50 men's discount stores "fun Attorney Street biz Forsythe Street." And there was another street, whose name I forget, that sold interior and upholstery fabrics at incredibly low prices as late as the late 1980s.

But still, it's food -- not slashed prices on paisley mumus and 1960s-model SupHose -- that draws everyone to that neighborhood now. And lest you think it's all "indigestible," besides WD-50, there's also Schiller Bar and my current favorite cheap eaterie, Zucco: Le French Diner.  

Alphabet City is a little rich for my diet these days. And I've wondered for years whatever happened to the Hell's Angels down there. They added such caché to that neighborhood.

by Matt in NYC on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 04:36:01 PM EST
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They weren't bad neighbors, all things considered.  From time to time we'd meet on the street, chat about motorcycles, I'd (very politely) decline the opportunity to purchase heroin, and they'd beat the snot out of anyone mucking with their turf.  Petty street crime dropped to zero.  

As long as you remembered they were completely batguano gonzo-crazy ... no problemo.  ;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 26th, 2007 at 12:59:53 PM EST
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Very similar here, the walk to the shops (two large-ish supermarkets opposite each other, a national chain--part of the John Lewis co-op--and a local shop-made good, called "Taj"...doing so well they're opening another across town.

And yeah, the walk...though for me it's birds, not dogs.  Seagulls, pigeons, blackbirds, strange birds whose call I recognise but the feathered producer...I haven't seen...and people...people watching...

....and then there's the other supermarket, the "veggie" hippie co-op with local veg and localish (well, okay, european) organic fruit etc....not to mention the "corner shop" which has also gone "green", with organic this and that.  They also sell a lot of pre-cooked curries and rice.

...and we have the trees, but we also have the sea, various views at different moments.  Plus we have hills (the five hills), so I'm going up or down or along and across and the view changes.

My view on malls: A lot of the people in them don't look healthy; and a lot of them aren't very bright-eyed.  So for the unhealthy and the not-so-quick-about-their-wits it seems the mall is a safe and comforting (comfortable?) place to be.  Also, I suppose it makes a difference if your plan is to shop--having the shops together and out of the weather.  So, the other people in malls: those out to buy-buy-buy.  Lossa bags being carried round, and lossa people eating pre-prepared food...which is fine.  The quality of the food and shops doesn't really change if they're all moved into the high street.  Taj does samosas and suchlike....but one key point, as you say Matt, is that I live 10 minutes from the shops so they are more just "there" rather than special.  For someone coming from out of town, it's an experience, and the mall must have that sense of aggregation....also, they appeal to the younger members of the public; and if they have baby facilities, and suchlike, they can be easy for some parents...not like the hassle of shopping out on the street...if you have to travel, I mean.  If you can't walk out your door, turn the corner, and lo!  Shops!  (Which would reduce road traffic considerably--shops below, living space above--people walking...oh and of course, the mall is free from traffic fumes and noise...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 12:47:14 PM EST
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You are right that the important part is the social interaction because it makes shopping humane.  I agree with you on everything except the last part about everyone living in big cities.  I don´t see how that would be feasible, or necessary because nowadays even the most sophisticated product can be sent anywhere.  It is only that we, city people, are used to instant gratification, but anyone can learn to plan ahead and wait.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 03:48:25 PM EST
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Actually I didn't say "everyone." I said "more people." You only have to spend about an hour on the Net to realize that tens of millions of once-vibrant people are leading dreary hopeless lives in suburbs and exurbs all over the world. In the U.S. in particular, I think this is one of the root causes of American meanspiritedness and Republicanism. People are social animals; to thrive they need the kind of skin-to-skin contact you can only get in a close-knit village or a well-designed big city.

A sign of hope: there are over a million more people in New York City now than there were in 1990. (And the only people you ever hear complain about overcrowding are suburbanites foolish enough to drive into the city.)

by Matt in NYC on Sun Mar 25th, 2007 at 04:53:42 PM EST
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We agree.  Close-knit communities are the key and they are ´made´ by people, living in contact; they cannot be built.  NYC seems to be one of the most adapted and adaptable cities in the world and is able to maintain many communities within.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Tue Mar 27th, 2007 at 08:05:33 AM EST
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