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The best course is to go forward constructing new gadgets and consequences, it appears.

This is where I'm not so sure.  I'd rather humanity--and in particular the scientific part of it--pondered a while the implications of what we're discovering rather than just using the "magic" to create ever-more-powerful devices for the status quo.  I think the new intuitions call into question most strongly the assumptions/intuitions of the status quo.  Heh heh...that's sorta where I'm coming from.  Think of DeAnander's regular dismantling of status quo assumptions.  I'd like every last scientist to be dismantling like crazy, building a new zeitgeist (?) for scientists that ties to the new intuitions, coz out of that I--well, I'm very optimistic about what rapid benefits....spreading rapidly in waves, complex shapes, using chaos knowledge...that kinda thing...distributed renewable energy systems, transportation, housing.  Yet I think (I could be wrong, this is not my field) the majority of people involved in science get their money from the circuit III "onwards as before" logic.

And, das monde!  You understand RAW much better than me; and yeah, I think he knows there are contradictions in what he proposes, but that's, I think, because there's something inherently contradictory about using writing as a primary communication tool at certain levels or in certain areas...the paradox of teaching what can't be taught...buddhist koans, that kinda thing...but I'm very glad he worked at it.

It is admirable to teach people to detect bullshit

I didn't pick up that you saw science that way.  I don't think it is how most people experience their science education.  I'm wondering what the circuit III is expected to use to balance their various models against.  If Cheney says, "It's too complicated to understand, but believe me," how do we call "Bullshit"?  On what grounds?  If there were some clear way of calling it, a way that couldn't be disputed by other "rationales"...but them's be politics.

I think the best (the only?) way of creating an unbreakable bullshit detector is for the grounding to be in intuition based on constant lived reality.  I mean, someone who knows plenty of people from Iran will hear bullshit much earlier than someone who has never met anyone from the middle east.  Only higher, wider, deeper, there's something about how society is constructed that is circuit III/IV, and we've reached the end of that, I think.  7 billion people is enough growth.  Now we need different intuitions...hey!

My rational supposition at the moment is that the higher circuits perceive some general but deep patterns beyond usual empirical experience

I don't think they are beyond empirical experience; I think the higher circuit model is to show that empirical experience is in evolution or development...that we are capable of empirically experiences much wider, higher, etc.  This reminds me of what TBG wrote, something along the lines that drugs are a day trip, but if you want to go live in the new country--that's harder.  But there is, indeed a new country, and the people who live there are, I think, quicker, more efficient, less "weighty" (the car=old tech., so weighty, that kinda thing), more connected (there's that quantum idea--everything is connected; everything influences everything else; everything is local--heh, I'm a circuit III reading runes and maybe trying to make a few day trips, and liking the country I visit, hoping my kids will learn from these circuit V people, that kinda thing.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 12:19:24 PM EST
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