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Sorry for your shock-induced furor, but you should do some research before you make arguments.  I didn't say windpower was born in the Altamont Pass, i said the wind INDUSTRY was born there, meaning commercial use of turbines.  The Danish industry wouldn't have made the strides it did without the COMMERCIAL sale of turbines to California, in the first years primarily to the Altamont.

I agree that the Altamont turbines are a PR disaster, but you should find out why and who has prevented the Altamont repowering proposals from going forward before you slam the industry.  The industry has been trying to upgrade the Altamont for over a decade; stopped by hostile utilities, the legislature and the misunderstood bird issue.

Those turbines represent the living claim that turbines have a useful life of at least 20 years.  They should, however, be replaced, but modern turbines won't fit the bill.  The Altamont wind resource isn't thick enough, and sometimes doesn't even reach 300 feet high.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 at 01:58:54 AM EST
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I have done YEARS of research.  Thank you very much.

You claim the Danish wind turbine industry wouldn't have made the great commerial strides it did without a few orders from Altamont.  How very "ugly American" of you.  I truly hope you don't actually believe such nonsense.

And if you did some research, you would know that I have NEVER blamed the wind turbine industry for their inability to do a better job.  In fact, I have written BOOKS on the subject of whom to blame and trust me, the manufacturers aren't even on my list.

Don't you have ANYTHING better to do with your life than defend the garbage turbines at Altamont???

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 at 02:34:13 AM EST
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Don't you have ANYTHING better to do with your life than defend the garbage turbines at Altamont???

Don't you think that's going over the line?

Crazy Horse says those turbines should be replaced. What he does with his life is work for wind power. Not much point in the two of you SHOUTING at each other?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 at 02:57:56 AM EST
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afew, he's talking about the land i've walked a thousand times, and the project i built with my sweat and guts.  and he may be a supporter (Look at the beautiful post) but he's missed totally the California effect on windpower's growth.

I know exactly what happened in Denmark at the start of the industry, as i was a guest of the first modern Danish turbine designer.  I sat at dinner tonight with one (northern European) who also watched the industry's birth, and he strongly confirmed my statement.  I've been stunned as dozens of Danish pioneers welcomed those whose purchases gave Denmark a new industry, and when i was last at the Risoe unannounced, dozens of staff came to the room to express their thanks and hear the latest.

And i absolutely stand by the statement that we couldn't today be selling around the world brand new 90 meter turbine designs as having a 20 year life, without the fact that the 15 meter Altamont turbines have already done that and more.

For him to attack someone who built some of the projects he's trashing as garbage, who doesn't seem to know anything about the 12 year effort to replace those machines, is akin to sacrilege.  That ancient garbage provided in a few years the engineering data which allowed an infant industry to develope, mature and expand to what it is today.  Without that data, including critical loads data, there would be no wind industry today.

And about the birds... when people are dying and more millions each year are at risk, what can one say?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 at 06:33:03 PM EST
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The passion's understandable and all to the good, imo. It'd be nice if your disagreement didn't go beyond the line into personal invective, though - and it seemed to be getting there, hence my quote from techno and my comment.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 3rd, 2007 at 08:16:30 AM EST
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