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I won't argue as to the status of these degrees vis a vis "real science" and whatnot. I do know the engineers at UM were a world apart. They (along with most of the artists, oddly) had their own separate campus. They were also strongly anti-union, despite the fact that there the engineering departments had a huge number of TA's. Being snubbed during organizing drives was one of the only contacts I had with students in engineering.
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