Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
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And now for something completly... I mean, this will looks the same to you. But now, on my side of the screen, it's quite different !

Cheers

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:50:32 AM EST
You beat me to it by a week.  I have a disk (kubuntu 6.10), and I'm ready to just wipe out windows.  But...I do have one favour to ask--if you're game.  (Or if anyone else knows the answer.)

Can you read in the pics from a digital camera?  If so, can kubuntu read the install disks that come with a camera, or is something more tricky involved?

I ask because when I said, "Hey, I could just..." do exactly what you've done (but killing windows not MacOSX), I received a nod from my wife, followed five minutes later by a concerned face and the question:

"Are you sure it will still take photos?"

[For any supertech heads, the camera is a Canon DIGITAL IXUS 75]

Like I said, I'm hoping to switch next week (I could try to go dual boot, but like you'd I'm sorta thinking...hey...just wipe the old one off the disk and load the new...and then read the various manuals...)

Heh!

btw, if I get it to work I promise to write instructions for all the non-tech people.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 12:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In theory (and I havent actually tried this so treat this advice with the contempt it deserves :-)

in theory connecting the camera up with a USB cable should allow you to mount the camera as a disk drive. on the other hand, if your laptop has a memory card slot, it should  allow you to mount the card as a drive from there.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
gphoto?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well...

My Canon IXUS doesn't want to talk to my kubuntu, if I remember correctly.

This is down to whether the camera manufacturer is too fucking lazy to implement the USB mass storage standard on their hardware.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you try gphoto? I thought it spoke camera protocols?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I haven't tried gphoto. Maybe I should.

The point is, USB storage devices should speak the darn USB mass storage protocol.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not so hard to buy a generic card reader and use that.

But... I doubt any app on any version of Linux is going to have solid support for camera RAW files across a decent range of cameras.

As usual, most instantiations of Linux seem too busy playing 'Me too' to deal with (slightly) more high end requirements.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ubuntu actually has top-notch automatic hardware recognition abilities. It's anything but a "me too" distribution.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well...I'll have to go web searching it seems.

Should I take the answer to the question: can kubuntu read the manufacturer's disks as a straight "no"?

(Maybe I'll have to go dual boot...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are utilities to run windows applications under linux. Mac OS is BSD Unix under the hood so it should also be possible to do that. There are even utilities to run windows hardware drivers under linux.

But any of this falls under the "boys and girls, don't try this at home" category.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 01:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's me-too in the sense that you can sort-of run Office and a browser and an emailer, but you can't run Adobe CS3, Cubase, ProTools, anything from Sonic Solutions, Lightroom, Audition, MaxMSP, Acid, a few hundred VST software synthesizers and effects, or most other serious creative apps under it.

Also, drivers do not exist for maybe 90% of industry-standard professional or semi-pro audio and video hardware.

The me-too apps that exist - like Blender, GIMP, Audacity, etc - are poor imitations of the professional apps they're based on, and lack either the stability or the variety of the tools available for Windows or OS X.

I don't much mind that Linux exists, but exaggerated claims for its ability to slay Windows are clearly nonsense.

(And I don't much like Windows, so if a genuine Windows-slayer appeared, I'd be near the head of the line for it.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 02:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Er... How is it Linux' fault that software or hardware vendors won't support it?

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 02:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because if it doesn't offer solid apps, no one uses it.

No one wants to pay £££££ for quality apps, and if Linux offered them for free it would be on the receiving end of a stampede.

But it doesn't. At all.

Hence the lack of interest.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 03:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a vicious circle. People are willing to develop hardware drivers for free if only vendors would release the hardware specs or donate the hardware to do the development. Hardware vendors develop windows and mac drivers and applications by themselves. Linux has stable kernel releases that drivers could be made compatible  with.

As for apps... You can cross-compile them with very little tweaking necessary. They're just choosing not to. How much effort do you think it cost microsoft to make IE and Office run on Mac OS? Not a whole lot. And that is BSD Unix compatible.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 03:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The APIs used in Linux and Windows are completely different, so there's a lot more work required than just cross compilation.

From a sales and numbers POV, Linux users count as a rounding error, so there's no way a corporation could make back the cost of cross-development. And even if it could it would either have to run development in parallel, which complicates everything, or have Linux conversions running six months to a year behind the 'official' releases.

But it's also a cultural issue. The me-too aspect comes from the way that current Linux apps are second rate versions of their professional equivalents. And emulators like Wine are always a generation or three behind what's needed to run native Windows apps reliably and successfully.

There is exactly one professional recording studio in the world that (sometimes) uses Linux commercially. But considering how expensive ProTools is, it's not as if there's a lack of interest from potential users. But the community isn't together enough to put together a viable alternative.

The problem is that amateur spare-time development can't compete with full-time cube-farm development with professional project oversight.

Linux will always be me-too until the community realises this and organises itself to put together a BIG showcase prestigious project that's very obviously superior to the equivalent professional app.

Users want apps. They don't much care what the OS is. Until Linux gives them the apps they want, without compromise, it's always going to be a footnote. Drivers would inevitably follow if the interest were there.

I don't see this happening. It might, but I don't see any evidence that Linux developer culture is focussed enough to pull it off. There's just about enough interest to put together a kernel, but it doesn't seem likely that finding a thousand people would be willing to work together to develop a full-featured video editor.

(To a smaller extent similar issues apply to blogging and activism, IMV.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 04:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Check Crossover. From CodeWeavers: http://www.codeweavers.com/products/

No recompile. No virtual machine. No memory hog. WINE on steroids. Works for real, all MS Office, IE, etc...

Well worth the price.

Pierre

by Pierre on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 04:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I usually just plug my camera (Canon 350D) or card reader into the USB port and then copy the files & edit them with UFRaw. Works fine on Fedora.

(Although now I'm going to have to learn MacOS and Photoshop, since that's what we're using at school.)

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 02:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I went through this with my Canon S1 IS. I think Canon does not directly present your flash card as a drive to the OS (according to whatever the standard is). I never got it connected in Ubuntu. My Fuji and my new Nikon have no issues connecting in Ubuntu.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 02:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, this sort of thing is way out of my league. I'm trying to get shockwave running, so I can watch you youtube vids...

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 09:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just install the firefox flash plugin! It just about installs itself.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2007 at 02:17:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I got that far. But Java seems to be needed and there is some unexepected "(" that blocks the whole thing... the weirder thing being that "(" blocks installation on all versions...


Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Fri Sep 21st, 2007 at 10:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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