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Enjoyed your diary, RDF, and I think 7you summarize part of the problem pretty well. However, I am increddulous that you would write the following.
Clams to be interested in "solving" the educational crisis are mostly being fostered by those who want to replace a generally successful public education system with one which preaches their pet ideologies.

Sorry, but that's just not the case.

From my comment of a few days ago:

From Truthdig, Chris Hedges:

     We live in two Americas. One America, now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés. It is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban, believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities.

    There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation's population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a book.

A full one third of Americans who graduate from college will never read another book.

My friend, who was once the chief of IBM's personnel division, told me -twenty years ago- that the fastest growing new job description in the company was one in which the worker would just help applicants fill out the job application, because the applicant's literacy skills were inadequate to that task.

Presidential debates illustrate the changes well:
Using a well respected analytical test, the Global Language monitor tracks a clear trend of deterioration from the current presidential debate levels of 6th-7th grade levels, back to the Lincoln-Douglas debates, where the candidates at least spoke on about a high school graduate level.

Yes, their Biden-Palin results seem weird. In general, a well-respected outfit.

The facts above are well known among educational researchers. They are, in fact, not a bug, but a feature, in the world of supercapitalist plunder.

In fact, it is the literate, questioning, iconoclastic worker who is grit in the bearings of a consumer society.

Viewed in this light, the current "educational" system is a great success.

But--at what?
Creating consumers. And dumbing down the "masses" so they will believe that--it's a life. The only life.

My son's experience with the system--and ours-- is here:
Enterprise Village==or, the future of American democracy.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 07:05:57 AM EST
Egad. For a comment on education, I sure started out on the rough end.
I posted the unedited comment by accident. Please ignore the bloopers.
Point's the same.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 07:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The degree of literacy in this country in prior times was lower than it is now. The country has always been divided into the "educated" classes and the "working" classes.

Notice that the majority of top politicians and business leaders still come from the educated class, the rare exception is the true (or quasi-) populist like Sarah Palin.

In point of fact most people use very little of what they learn in school. When was the last time that the typical person needed algebra, or chemistry in their work or daily life?

That's why I emphasized the importance of John Dewey's ideas. By working on the process of self learning people can become equipped to deal with the new things they face during their lives. This is also important if one is to be a thinking citizen in a democracy.

The proof that most of what is taught in school is useless can be seen in the TV show "Are you smarter than a fifth grader?" where contestants have to answer questions based upon material in first to fifth grade classes. They are helped in their efforts by actual fifth graders, who tend to know more of the answers.

Is it important that you remember the names of the moons of Mars?

Of course much of education is aimed at training docile workers and easily led consumers, but this doesn't happen if parents demand more. They don't because they don't demand more out of life for themselves, so see no need for their children.

Politicians are always expressing concern that families be able live a comfortable (material) life with a good job and health and retirement security. They never discuss leading a fulfilling life or a creative one. There's no demand.

This is one of my continual themes when I discuss (repeatedly!) the need to transition from a "stuff" based society to a sustainable one based upon other goals - like more community involvement, sports, arts, etc.

I realized yesterday that one can spend hours per day perfecting one's skills at a musical instrument and spend no money at all. Obviously this presents a threat to a society based upon planned obsolescence.

I think I'll take up some of your concerns when I revise my essay for inclusion on my web site.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 08:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The degree of literacy in this country in prior times was lower than it is now. The country has always been divided into the "educated" classes and the "working" classes.

Repeatedly, excerpts from high school exams-public school exams, administered to the children of working class and monyed classes 50, 75 and 100 years ago have been compared to current exams at the same grade levels. The comparison is invariably devastating.

In point of fact most people use very little of what they learn in school. When was the last time that the typical person needed algebra, or chemistry in their work or daily life?

Sounds pretty patronizing to me. Perhaps those "typicals" ought to just get their butt off to work, and forget notions above their station.
Jeez, RDF. Exposure to "advanced " ideas like algebra and critical history are what make the intellect live.
Of course much of education is aimed at training docile workers and easily led consumers, but this doesn't happen if parents demand more. They don't because they don't demand more out of life for themselves, so see no need for their children.

Clearly you did not read my diary, "Enterprise Village". Or you consider me one of those people who "--don't demand more out of life for themselves, so see no need for their children."

You waste both our times.


Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 10:15:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have no idea what got your dander up. I read your essay and wasn't commenting on it.

As to literacy rates here is a link to the US stats.

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp#educational

There are some critics who claim that traditional measures of literacy were inadequate, that's why they now have terms like "functionally illiterate". But whatever the measure educational achievement has gone up in the US over time.

It may have stagnated in the recent past, but the effects of the large increase in immigration would have to be factored in.

In addition kids today know more than did those in earlier periods, their exposure to radio, TV and now the internet means they are more informed than in prior periods. In an earlier age when high school graduation was achieved by the minority it was possible for the curriculum to be more rigorous (although whether this is true is also open to debate, and certainly dependent upon region) schools thought nothing of having students leave before graduation.

Now there is a big push for everyone to graduate from high school. When this is combined with the idea that all students should get an "academic" diploma and that separating students by ability is unacceptable there has been a degree of dumbing down in the school districts with limited resources. Schools with more money figure out ways to get around this by use of enrichment or other supplemental programs. Even if they don't the parents send their kids to SAT prep and other programs.

I've written often on the value of education as an end in itself and as one of those activities which could be undertaken throughout life for enrichment without the need to tie it to job goals. This is another of my post-materialist suggestions.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 11:35:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Great comment - and I followed your link and read your diary for the first time - it was written before I joined here and reminded me of our conversation in Paris.

There are some basic skills like literacy and numeracy which are basic in any education and which must be measured and tested for and which must be remedied - with intensified resources, as required - until such time as the student can progress to the next level.  A functioning democracy depends on them.

Parents, teachers, and administrators who allow illiteracy and innumeracy to persist through schooling should hang their heads in shame.  They are failing in their most basic duty to the young, and to society.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 10:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But then, in France there were teachers specialised in helping those that were falling far behind on such topics - and their job is being suppressed...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 10:33:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Germany, those teacher posts were not created in the first place. What happens is that children who missed some weeks in the early years, say due to an illness, will never learn much, if not their parents (can) help. Nobody seems surprised in the least degree.
Nowadays, fluency in German is identified as a great problem – to be remedied in kindergarten, lest an inconvenient child spoil our perfect plans. No help  intended for older children who enter the school system with less than perfect knowledge of German, like my nephews, who had lived the greater part of their childhood in English speaking countries.
Nor, of course, of anyone else demanding attention, help, common sense, etc.

Besides being typical for the moronic scum who directs our schools, this is also indicative of the surprisingly poor quality of our teaching profession, i.e. even if it is not planned and paid for a teacher should usually be able to help children without much ado, most of the time.

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 at 01:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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