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You're lawyer friend is an arse. I don't accept buyer's remorse over removing other people's rights. He's a lawyer, he knew what he was doing and he decided to remove from a whole bunch of americans a right he takes for granted. He has voted to create a second class of citizenship. Will he vote for laws to ban marriage between the races too ? Filth ! Scum !! Trash !!

And the weak and pathetic idea that he's gonna canvass afterwards to undo the damage. Sorry, you drop a vase  it doesn't matter how hard you stick it back together, it'll still be cracked. No matter what he does about gay right to marriage after he's taken it away an awful lot of people are gonna have something that really matters to them taken away, wedding vows that had desperate resonance will be undone at the flick of some selfish religious wankers stroke of a pen. People will leave the sate to move to places where they're welcome and accepted and their full rights as Americans are inviolate.

Most gay websites admit that if Prop 8 succeeds it's likely to be a generational defeat. It won't be back for at least a decade, probably much more. Too expensive, the activists will never be so committed and there will never be a liberal tide as high as this again. Utah will have gay marriage before California if Prop 8 wins.

That's what your scumbag lawyer friend has contributed to. I'm glad Del Martin didn't live to see the smug self-satisfed grin on your friend's face and instead died in her wife's arms.


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 at 06:37:10 AM EST
I know.  Seriously.  Why do you think I argued for an hour with a drunk who'd already voted?  I was seriously upset/appalled that I actually knew someone who'd do that.  

But one correction:  he's not my scumbag friend, he's my scumbag relative.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 at 02:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, relatives we don't choose...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 at 02:44:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I totally share your passion for full equality, but still cannot understand the contradiction to equality in some insults that reduce humans to their differential sexual secretions, anatomy, etc.  Insulting is perfectly natural, but an insult is meant to harm by definition, so in practice
´scum´ = semen
´bag´  = vagina.

Those are in conflict with equality because they deeply exploit people´s differences and there is no valid source that will contradict general and personal experience.  For example, when the insults are turned against a loved one, --sister, partner, mother, son, daughter,-- people naturally react with anger, or worse, because they are meant to do damage.  So, if we want equality, why do we divide?

Regardless of how outnumbered I may be, I am offended by the deep rage some of those words carry and have seen their effects:  words have power that cannot be ignored.  I try to write from knowledge with experience, not for competition, so I repeat it because it is important for discourse towards any real equality.  

I hope I have measured all words properly enough to avoid unwarranted anger.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 at 12:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When you can't find any native speakers to back-up your interpretation of a phrase, it's time to leave it. That interpretation of scumbag is in your head, not anyone elses. Scum isn't slang for semen as far as I know, and bag isn't slang for vagina. How big a sample of far flung native speakers do you need?

You appear to be attempting to resurrect a previous argument for no reason in the face of the facts. That is trolling. Stop it.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 at 12:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... the top of stagnant ponds. And bag would be a container, normally with a non-rigid shell.

Calling a person a scumbag would then be saying a person is offering the world a value equivalent to a bag of skin full of scum.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 04:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Urban Dictionary supports a precious-bodily-fluids interpretation of the term, rather than a reference to algae or simple aquatic plant forms.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 05:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently the use of 'scumbag' to mean 'used condom' dates from 1967 and the word didn't exist before. Scum is solid residue of a liquid. (source)

Long time no see, I'm glad we found a topic worthy of your interest.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 05:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
However, that still leaves the absurd leap from that connotation of the term to the proposed connotation.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 06:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, DeAnander - how you been?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 05:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you're....alive!

thought you were investigating green scum in davy jones' locker, your blog has been so dead in the water, and no sign of you here for months!

this place has really gone downhill since you left, everyone's using capital letters so traditionally, hope you stick around and bless us with some good lowercase, full page soliloquies again, lol.

jeez, you've been missed, welcome back!

:)

does happy summersault

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 05:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If they were calling the scumbag lawyer a "cunt", you'd have a point. Though I wonder if you'd have complained if they called him a "prick"?

They're carefully picking "scumbag" precisely because it isn't sexual in nature.

There aren't many really nasty insults left in English when you start pruning the sexual ones, and you can't have scumbag.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 at 12:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've had this discussion and I simply don't recognise the inferences. You are my friend but you are wrong. I cannot change my language to accomodate invented offence.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 06:37:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
hmmm .... "scumbag lawyer" ...  

I wonder ... if he were a wedding dress designer and promised to give away free wedding dresses to gay couples in atonement for his vote (an equally silly idea) ... would you have automatically used the phrase "scumbag wedding dress designer".   Probably not - it just doesn't flow.   You probably would have called him "your scumbag cousin".

We lawyers tend to notice little things like that.

by Maryb2004 on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 06:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or even better, maybe trying to avoid insults altogether could be an idea too, even when it's about an issue we feel passionately about (given that insults are the spoken equivalent of the slightly more physical fist in the mouth).

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 06:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a fine idea, however I felt like punching my idiot cousin when he told me.  That said, I refrained from name-calling in the diary (I think. I don't want to re-read) and also in the hour long argument.

That said, I haven't waded into this portion of the comments till now because I understand Helen's depth of feeling on the matter and the impulse to hurl strong words at such times.  If you can't vent among friends, when can you?  It didn't seem the time to bicker over words.

I'm not gay, but I understand having your rights violated feels very, very personal.  Like an assault.  And I do feel that organized political 'violence' is more harsh than verbal insults.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 07:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah but what about my own aunt Helen, a non-practicant Christian and not a gay hater, but would never agree to gay marriage (call her antique, all you like, she approaches 70). What if she reads over my shoulder, you think she deserves the kind of rants present here (or on the other thread discussing Prop.8) ? You're right, I would probably protect her from this, tell her there are all kinds of intolerant people online, probably this Helen is young, had ugly experiences blah blah. The usual excuses. Oh well.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Thu Nov 6th, 2008 at 02:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Have I mentioned how much I like lawyers?  Even my scumbag cousin, most of the time...

http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/relationships/37706prs20081105.html

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 at 07:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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