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trying to pick fights with everyone, and eliminating anyone it can dominate.

HUH!? What you say was ten years ago. Since then, Milo has been toppled.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 05:08:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Despite Western™ hopes to the contrary, none of the various Serb leaders after Milosevic have been particularly pro-western. The narrative on uppity post-Milosevic Serbia has for some time looked a lot like coverage of uppity post-Yeltsin Russia: it's almost as if we had to be surprise that they raise their heads and assert themselves after "defeat".

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 06:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hah, I almost didn't catch the snark.

I remember the great hopes in the West for Kostunica. This was the Democrat who was the first to translate important documents of American democracy into Serbian.

Turned out he was a "nationalist" and a "hardliner."

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:11:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I must note that at least in the German and Hungarian press I read at the time, Kostunica was considered a nationalist and a 'lesser ill' before the toppling of Milo. Zoran Đinđić was the clear choice for sympathetic presentation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think this is about Milo.  And it's not about forcing subservience, either.  All I ever hear from Serbia is whining that they can't screw around with all the people they used to screw around, about how nobody (except Russia) likes them or trusts them.
I've never seen anything resembling contrition coming out of Serbia.  Ten years is nothing when they can't understand or accept responsibility for the evil that came from their arrogance.
Russia's been using Serbia to cause trouble in the Balkans for a hundred years, and Serbia seems to still like the role.
If they want forgiveness they should say "sorry".  All I've ever heard is "why are you picking on me -- I didn't do anything wrong".  I'd have to be pretty gullible to believe that signifies a change in attitude.  Why would I want to trust someone who did unspeakable evil and has never expressed contrition or a desire to mature.  Wanting western money is not equivalent to wanting peace and harmony.
by Andhakari on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 07:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, they have apologized.

Have you been listening?

I don't think you have.

Then again, apologies in the region are hard to come by. Never an apology for the death camps in Croatia in WW2. Never an apology for Operation Storm, and in fact, when war criminals were arrested from the other side, the UN has sought to protect them (just Google Carla Del Ponte and Ramush Haradinaj). This story is a lot more complicated than you make out. You say the Serbs wanted to screw around with people without acknowledging things like Rambouillet which were clear attempts to screw around with them, nor acknowledging that the only group in the ex-Yugo prevented from seeking their own nation-state (in the Krajina, in Bosnia, in Slavonia, and now in northern Kosovo) was the Serbs.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:15:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've never seen anything resembling contrition coming out of Serbia
To be fair, contrition is a luxury of the victor, not the vanquished...

In fact however, the current Serbian government expressed its contrition over the events surrounding Srebrenica and Croatia (in fact IIRC so did Babic - of all people)... I know not of any similar apologies from Croatia for Krajina or indeed the Bosnian Muslims regarding the actions of people such as Oric...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition, let's not forget how the NATO failed to expect that units of the terror groupmilitia it supported, the KLA, would proceed to reverse ethnic cleanse ethnic Serbs as well as Gypsies from Kosovo, and how in 2004, they failed to rein in the anti-Serb pogroms (choosing force protection instead). Where is the contrition for that -- from the Kosovo government, and from NATO and its member countries?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All I ever hear from Serbia is whining that they can't screw around with all the people they used to screw around

As an addition to what others wrote, I note: all you ever hear from Serbia is how the Western MSM you read present it, with neat wrapping. People should learn to apply the same scepticism to reporting as on Iraq.

Russia's been using Serbia to cause trouble in the Balkans for a hundred years

<sigh> Russia/the Soviet Union has been a rival and thus concern for Western imperiums for two centuries, and is thus subject to negative propaganda ever since. A propaganda that shuts out serious analysis of Russian moves (not to mention a denouncement of similar imperial policies by Western imperiums -- Russia never invaded the Western Balkans, but Austria-Hungary and Nazi Germany did so, as did NATO). In the current case, you completely ignore the break of international law, and its direct consequences to Russia's domestic and just-next-to-the-border concerns on territorial integrity.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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