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There is not a little hypocrisy in the decision to recognize Kosovo and ignore Serbia's protests, in that everyone tried for years to get Milosević and friends to follow the law. To listen to the law. Now the U.S. and certain members of the EU are blatantly ignoring UNSC 1244, which honors territorial integrity in Serbia and despite negotiations is still valid.

The more I think about this the angrier I become, because if we are not going to honor this UN resolution, why should anyone honor any other UN resolution? What the hell was the point of all the work that went into the resolution and negotiations? Serbia and Kosovo may have to be continually sent to separate corners of the ring, and Kosovo may have eventually ended up independent anyway, but dear god today's decision was really screwed up. This has really set a difficult precedent.

Now I'm thinking of all the secessionist movements in the U.S. Does anyone else think that as small and on-the-fringe as they are, recognizing Kosovo's independence today has just given them more legitimacy?

by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 05:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I read that beyond Greece and Cyprus, Slovakia signalled they won't recognise Kosovo. I wonder what Romania will do.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 05:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't know about Romania. It just occurred to me, however, that for all my complaining, the former Yugoslav republics themselves probably have no choice but to recognize Kosovo since they had broken away as well.

Ugh. I can't think straight about this anymore....

by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, the BBC is reporting Romania doesn't support it.
by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They list Romania as definitely opposed, but not Spain and Greece? In-te-rest-ing.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Romania has plenty of reason to be opposed: they have Transylvania, Moldova and Transdnistria to worry about.

As do Spain (Basque country, Catalonia, Galicia, Ceuta and Melilla, the Canary Islands, Olivenza...) and Greece (Northern Cyprus, Macedonia), of course.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 06:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece has Northern Cyprus and Western Thrace, where in one district (of three) the Moslem minority (dominantly turkish) is actually a majority and in another it's 50-50 with the Greek population.

In Macedonia there is no significant area in which seperatist Macedonian Slavs are even a substantial minority, let alone a majority.

Note also that various areas in S. Albania have a Greek majority/significant minority (despite the fact that most of them left for Greece they retain citizenship and property there). Although the only people advocating seccession of "Northern Epirus" (as it is called in Greece) are a few ultranationalist wingnuts, given the new situation that has developed, I'm betting on their resurgence...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:12:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reports say Romania was opposed alongside Blgaria, but it's not clear to me that theirs was a categoric opposition.

From the words of those two IDIOTS the German foreign minister and the CDU's foreign policy guy, it appears the pro-independence majority in the Council wants to push the minority to also agree so that there is EU unity on the matter.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
::Sigh::

Sometimes secession can be good. After all, my own country seceded from England in 1776. In Kosovo's case, I think at the very least, the timing was quite bad.

DoDo, where in what-would-become-Croatia were you and when? I didn't realize you had actually lived there.

by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A looong time ago, end of seventies. Six months in Obrovac, which was right at the border of the Krajinas, and two years in Zadar. Returned a number of times. I think my parents still have contact with the landlords.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope they got through the war alright.
by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. They sent their children to Australia. Zadar itself didn't receive much in terms of warfare, only three days of shelling (and the blowing up of the homes of Serbians after the cleansing of the Krajinas), during which an unexploded shell got stuck in their wall. (The hole was still unrepaired when we first visited after the war.)

We also had one post-war greeting card exchange with a Bosnian-Muslim family from the Croatian-Bosnian border, who once pre-war gave us shelter on a travel; how they made it, I'd be curious.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is Germany's game in the Balkans? They also were the first to recognize Croatian independence.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 07:02:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't know if, overall, there is more to it than a mistaken liberation ideology and even more mistaken sense of responsibility; plus, in the case of the government's foreign policy elites, mad blind naive Atlanticism. (I wonder what parallels there could be in Germany to the Slovenian case in the leak discussed in melo's first link.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 07:08:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the old alliance. Except Italy used to be included.

Italy, Austria, Germany and a huge chunk of the ex-Yugoslavia.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany had not much to say on the Western Balkans until WWII: that was the Habsburg Monarchy's backyard. They had more influence on the Eastern Balkans (Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria, Romania all building best relations, including dynastic ones, with Prussia.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:55:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would imagine that you'll find that Greece will be a part of the last group that recognizes.

Spain and Slovakia have been a lot more hardline about it. Greece has said that it will recognize eventually.

Greece and Serbia had a falling out over post-Milosevic squabbles, and also Serbia recognized Macedonia as Macedonia.

by Upstate NY on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:49:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am also curious about Spain's position.

France would also be interesting, would it not be led by a complete foreign-policy idiot.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought Spain was against it? Did I miss something?
by lychee on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(Checking)

No, I did miss it. Indeed Spain declared it's opposition, too.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also checked German media, and all but the Left Party representative is talking bullshit...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, Spain is against independence.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Various international positions and declarations here:

European Union countries have been split on Kosovo's act. Its four major member nations, Britain, France, Germany and Italy, along with the United States, were expected Monday to formally recognize Kosovo's independence from Serbia, while Cyprus, Greece, Romania, Slovakia and Spain oppose recognizing Kosovo's move, at least in the short term for fear that it would become a dangerous precedent for other separatist movements. Still others like Malta and Portugal proposed that Kosovo's future be decided at the UN Security Council.

Some of the declarations agin' it:

Russia of course - strong on sarcasm:


Russia condemned Kosovo's proclamation, and demanded an urgent UN Security Council meeting on the issue, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

"We expect the UN Mission in Kosovo and NATO-led Kosovo Force (KFOR) will take immediate action to fulfill their mandates as authorized by the UN Security Council, including voiding the decisions of the Pristina local government and adopting severe administrative measures against them," said the statement.

Spain - handwringing:

The Spanish government on Sunday expressed its opposition to Kosovo's independence, saying it is beyond international laws for Kosovo to unilaterally declare its separation from Serbia.

It also said the declaration would harm peace in the Balkan region, setting a dangerous precedent for regions where separatism exits.

Czech Republic:

Czech President Vaclav Klaus warned Sunday that Kosovo's independence could trigger a domino effect in other European countries.

"Some parties in other states could realize that they do not feel completely at ease within a big state in which they are now," Klaus said in a television interview.

Czech Foreign Ministry spokesman Zuzana Opletalova said the ministry has taken note of Kosovo's declaration of independence, but it is up to the EU to adopt a joint position regarding the recognition of the independence.

(...i.e. Czechs not recognising it but kinda-coyly hiding their opposition behind that "it's up to the EU" feint, fact being they know the EU is sharply divided so won't/can't recognise Kosovo - only "joint EU position" on this issue being usual smarmy statement saying "the EU calls on all parties to show moderation and restraint"... lol! )

Slovakia:


The Slovak Foreign Ministry said on Sunday that it will not recognize Kosovo as an independent state for now. It will consider its next steps according to further developments and measures international organizations would take, the ministry said.

Slightly more coldly-formal version of the Czech statement??

...

North-Seas contingent sounds unenthusiastic...???


The German government has yet to decide whether it would recognize an officially independent Kosovo.
(...)
The Netherlands and Sweden have both expressed caution over Kosovo's independence. Both countries said they will not decide whether to recognize the independence of Kosovo until they studied the whole situation carefully.

In Stockholm, Norway's Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere called all parties to do their utmost to maintain calm and order in and around Kosovo.

"Throughout the status negotiations, Norway has stressed the importance of finding a solution both parties could agree to and that thus also could lead to a new UN Security Council resolution. It is deeply regrettable that this has not been possible," Stoere said in a statement.

Only ones actually clapping seem to be Albania USA UK and France?

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Italy seems to be keeping very quiet so far, indeed is even muter than pre-electorally justifiable.  However, Cuba's Prensa Latina put it in the anti-recognition camp... misunderstanding or scoop???  Can't find a trace of a position-statement in the Italian papers though, which is kinda-weird in itself -- so my bet is it's so queasy+conflicted on this issue it's silently tagging along in Germany's wake... they may well both band up with the Netherlands and Scandinavians by saying they're-with-the-EU but the-EU-should-pause-for-reflection-n'-search-for-unity?

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami
by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:47:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The lack of recognition from some countries--say, Sweden--is purposeful as a safeguard against Albanian forays into Northern Kosovo. The EU wants to keep using the carrot and stick approach.

I don't know why though since eventually the Serbs will either split off the north or leave it altogether.

Let's face it. The international community and the Albanians have been arguing, "We can't live with Serbia." I fail to see how that logic doesn't also apply to Serbs in Kosovo.

by Upstate NY on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One has to take the declarations of "first studying the situation" with great cynism. It's not like the emergence of this situation wasn't to be expected, and it strains credulity that the foreign ministries didn't have well-prepared scenarios. I think these declarations are meant to play for time.

i.e. Czechs not recognising it but kinda-coyly hiding their opposition behind that "it's up to the EU" feint

I don't know. Even if from the same party, the President and the government aren't the same thing. It may be that Klaus is paranoid about a re-emergence of the Sudeten-German question, or even the appearance of Moravian separatism out of thin air, while the government is just being bashful in its Atlanticism.

Slovakia: ... Slightly more coldly-formal version of the Czech statement??

In Slovakia's case, I think diplomatic language is only meant to leave wiggle room. The nationalist-dominated Slovakian government's concern is a break-away of ethnic-Hungarian-majority areas in the South of the country.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Feb 18th, 2008 at 04:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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