Kosovo declares independence | 190 comments (189 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 0)

I understand now. You were always only considering your personal view. And only your.

You are taking refuge in your individuality.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:08:05 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

You are denying Serbians' individuality.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:11:25 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

No. That is not the point. The original point was: many among the many will not think as you do.

You should try to understand my words. I try to understand yours.

that is why I understand now that my choice of words was denying YOU your individuality (not the Serbians). But it wasn't meant to be literal. After all, I know that you are an individual. I know more of what you say than many people you know.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:20:33 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (4.00 / 2)

The original point was: many among the many will not think as you do.

If that was the point, you made it very badly. You asked us if anyone would disagree. That's categoric, not about majorities. What's more, it seems to be calling for sympathy and agreement. In light of your "taking refuge" comment, I also sense disdain for opinions other than spiteful nationalist.

But, now understanding your words, I do agree that a majority will feel like that. It is just this dynamics I fear.

I don't know where you come to this issue, but for me it is too close to home. I lived in what became Croatia, I saw it before, and I saw it after, including the ethnic-cleansed parts. And the damage in the heads, there is say the Croatian ship-boy I talked to, and asked about the ethnic cleansings, and he would justify it with the evils done by the JNA and the "Republic".

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:31:18 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (4.00 / 2)

I'm glad that you understand my words. As for my feelings, well, conversations by text are very bad to transmit feelings.

What we have produced along his thread was an escalade. "disdain" comes after "refuge" which comes after "y" which comes after "x" which ... which ...

In the British Navy of old, as punishment, a number of sailors used to be tied to a wheel, and each given a whip, to beat in the back of the man in front. What started with minor slashes ended always in violent whipping. Because people:

1- underestimate the pain the other person feels (a 40% difference, it is said)
2 -tend to forget why the other fellow reacted faster than the reason we beated on him

It is suggested that the reasons for that are respectively:
1- our sensors of pain detect only our pain
2 -our apparatus of reasoning can store more easily our reasons than other's.

I think we can agree that nationhood is a whip ready to fall on the back of every man, and the Balkans are a giant wheel amongst many.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:11:52 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (4.00 / 2)

findmeaDoorIntoSummer:

In the British Navy of old, as punishment, a number of sailors used to be tied to a wheel, and each given a whip, to beat in the back of the man in front. What started with minor slashes ended always in violent whipping. Because people:

Reference? There are a number of stupidly violent punishments administered by the Royal Navy in the past. but that one I've never heard of.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:24:38 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

I am having difficulty in finding a reference. the torture was described to me in a conversation, not read in a book or article.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 07:57:21 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

Can't find any reference to it in Torture and democracy either.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 08:56:57 PM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

well, forget the torture. The modern day experiment from which the 40% figure is derived is:

Two Eyes for an Eye: The Neuroscience of Force Escalation. Sukhwinder S. Shergill, Paul M. Bays Chris D. Frith, Daniel M. Wolpert.
Science 11 July 2003:
Vol. 301. no. 5630, p. 187

a summary is available on-line upon free registration at publication website.

--------

For a description of what is all about, without having to register, please read Daniel Gilbert.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Mon Feb 18th, 2008 at 02:33:49 AM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

The exchange of words was rather painfull, at least to me. I cannot speak about you. However, a frank exchange of words open many issues, and that opening is interesting.
----------------
How can one believe that nationhood is a valid concept in Europa 2008 A.D.?

the Social Contract is the sole legitimiser of the existence of a state.
Therefore the establishment of a social contract between a European state and a European Volk[2] is the absolute requirement for the practical abolition of nation-states in a major part of the Europe.

[1] Natural monopolies providing cheap and efficient supply of goods required for all activities (such as EDF) are everyday manifestation of the social contract.
[2] Hence the need for many politicians to avoid the creation of a european citizenship.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Mon Feb 18th, 2008 at 02:51:13 AM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

(forgot to say it clear) this solution for eliminating the existing countries of EU is making the EU itself a bigger country.

the solution for eliminating Nations is making the social contract unnecessary.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Mon Feb 18th, 2008 at 03:03:35 AM EST
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Re: Kosovo declares independence (none / 1)

Is the social contract about nations or about states?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 06:21:03 AM EST
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