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The "compressing perspective" effect of a tele lens, surely :-)

One looks almost Russian to me (could be also Innsbruck style) while the other looks definitely french (rooster and al)...?
As it seems, some thought went with the designing... Maybe we could have some details on that part ?

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 07:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely correct about the compression from the lens.

As for the styles involved.  The 1894 finial was probably purchased out of a catalogue--the only important factors were cost and for theological reasons, the fact that it did not employ a cross (TOO Catholic).  We KNOW we got that one correct because we had the old, but damaged, parts to copy.

The one we just put on was much harder to get "right." We had a picture but no old parts.  The height and so on were pretty easy to get right, but the rooster (vaerhane in Norwegian) was a problem because of perspective problems in the picture.  We used high-definitions scans.  We actually found a sketch of the finial during the reconstruction of the steeple but it wasn't very detailed.  We got a scholar from Norway named  Jens C. Eldal, a church historian that has used Valley Grove's 1894 church in his studies, to weigh in with his opinions.  In the end, we had a retired art professor from St. Olaf, the college Valley Grove helped found, draw us a rooster.  I converted his drawing into a vector file using Illustrator, and after one more debate, we scaled it up to what we think was full size and gave it to the metal-benders.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 10:11:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the rooster feels right ! :-)
Thank you for the story ! I always thought we were the only ones to have one up there, often showing wind directions, to discovers that it applies further north :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 01:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, the rooster has theological implications.  I can look all this up again (Google steeple, rooster) but essentially, a pope in the middle ages dictated that a rooster should sit atop a steeple.  In the reaction following the Protestant reformation, the Catholics decided that in a burst of devotion, they would top their steeples with a cross.  This left the rooster as a symbol of the Protestants (especially the Lutherans).  All I know is that our Norwegian scholar sent us dozens of pictures of magnificent roosters atop Norwegian churches--and taught us the special term they had for them.

The practice did not survive the trip to USA very well.  Perhaps it was because by the mid 19th century, there were already thousands of weathervanes on barns, etc. that used roosters.  This would explain why the folks off the boat put a rooster on their church but a generation later, their children would probably think the practice corny.  By the time I came along, the practice was virtually unheard of.

When I was first in Europe in 1970, I was so surprised to see a rooster on a church in northern Germany , I actually asked how a barnyard animal came to represent religious devotion.   That was the first time anyone had explained to me how a rooster would symbolize which side of the 30 Years War one found oneself at the end of hostilities.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 03:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fascinating, I just had a look at it and it seems that the rooster is an ancient  symbol linked to divinity (prescience of the dawn)n then used as a metaphor for the Christ (the new dawn). Many painting of the crucifixion has a rooster on a column in the background (resurrection).
The rooster of Notre Dame of Paris had bones hidden inside, relics of a saint of the city...!

Even though we mutually slit our throats for years in our "parpaillots" vs "papistes" quarrels, we kept the roosters because of the gallic symbol that was just as strong as the christian one... The french revolution choose the rooster as a national symbol and while Napoleon replaced it with the eagle, the "restauration" put quickly back the rooster as a major french figure...

I expect a rooster to be on the field in Wales/France :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 08:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did not know about the French attachment to the rooster.

I also know that there is also a theological connection to Peter's denial of Christ (Matthew 26:34, 74, 75).  The idea is that the rooster reminded the great saint of his human frailty.

I love it when a revolution appropriates a symbol of folks they defeated.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 08:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahem... While the french revolution killed a lot of priests as nobles, it didn't suppress them, it broke the ties they had with Rome or other big european nations and mostly the advantages and privileges they had on laymen!
Today, a noble title (coat of arm and all) is still recognized by the french republic (if authentic) and shifting it to a surviving branch of a family is validated by the Prime Minister...!
For the priests and pastors it was more about links to Rome and Germany (and also about philosophy :-) )!

The roster was there since the romans, Gallus, the rooster, was the same word for the "Gaulois" and while most of the gallic tribes preferred the boar, many had the rooster as an emblem.
In the middle ages, the rooster was everywhere, catholics as local sorcerers or druids or shaman. I think it's really old around here :-)

There's a legend about Peter spitting a rooster because of the reminder of his failed oath, and all the others staying silent...It was common lore in the middle ages, but not of great influence, I believe, either in the french rooster or the ones on the spires of churches :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 09:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well.  You are WAY ahead of me on roosters.  Everything I know about them I learned in the last year--and that was directed from a Norwegian Lutheran perspective.

Obviously, you French have this symbol MUCH further ingrained into your culture.  When we went to purchase our rooster, we found a southern weathervane maker and not much else.  The one we had made was produced by a HVAC company.  Since MOST of the work those folks do winds up buried in walls, they were VERY pleased that the rooster was the crowning touch of restoration project.

I will do some catch-up on French roosters.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have just seen an article about roosters atop a Lutheran church in the north of Sweden.  Where was  info when we needed it?

http://www.thelocal.se/10590/20080319/1/

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 10:21:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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