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For electricity to become a more important energy source from sunlight, there needs to be several problems solved.

The first is the huge losses that long-range transmission causes. Some estimates are 25%. Moving generation closer to users would help, but this isn't an option for most solar projects. Attempts at superconducting transmission have not gone well to date.

Second is the (ultimate) resource limits on the rare earth elements needed in many solar panels. Panels using more readily available materials don't seem to have as high a yield.

Third is the need to store energy for when the sun is not shining. I've wondered about converting water to Hydrogen as a mechanism, especially for coastal windfarms. The Hydrogen could then be used as a fuel itself.

Transportation run by electricity is going to always have problems because of the need to drag batteries around. Perhaps it is time to investigate centralized power again. Aside from the unsightliness, electric trams and buses run off overhead wires were practical, non-polluting and reasonably quiet. Maybe highways could be outfitted with power and hybrid cars would connect for long distance and only run on batteries at the ends of the journey.

There is too much expectation that the personal vehicle model can (and needs to be) maintained. This is an innovation which is less than 100 years old. It's not clear that it is a necessity.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 at 10:28:08 AM EST
Saying that trams are unsightly may get you in trouble with a certain person from Hungary...

In comparison with biofuels, electric is going to be favourable even if you posit transmission and conversion losses of 50% and over. However, actual transmission losses seem to be much lower. Wikipedia states losses of about 7% for the US and the UK.

Converting water into hydrogen through electrolysis is still a very inefficient process, so whether hydrogen is a viable energy carrier seems uncertain.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 at 01:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed; recommended viewing for rdf: Trams and Un tour de tramways here on ET, and Local Rail (4/5): Light Rail, Tram-Bus over at dKos... and if you truly can't stand the sight of a catenary, there are solutions without, also discussed in the last-linked diary.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 12:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did anyone read what I actually said. I'm in favor of light rail or electric transport. In the US all those who see nothing ugly with miles of strip malls suddenly become aesthetes when it is time to put up wind farms or add mass transit.

Don't blame me, I rode the train to work when I traveled to NYC.

Currently a plan to add a third track to the mainline of the Long Island Railroad to increase capacity is running into opposition because it will require removing about 15 homes and widening the right of way slightly. I guess the opponents favor the increased auto traffic that will result if the expansion doesn't take place.

The US is the world leader in NIMBYism.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Mon Mar 17th, 2008 at 11:53:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Something that could, should be fought by making clear that rail can even have sightiness.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Mar 17th, 2008 at 11:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A couple of random comments on your post:

  1. What are the circumstances under which you will have losses of 25% on long-distance electricity transport? Using higher voltages (up to 1MV) will help. So will going to DC instead of AC. Superconducting cables may not be necessary.

  2. Solar thermal power plants and concentrating PV need a sunny climate, but normal PV works quite fine in climates with less solar radiation since it also uses the diffuse light (light from the sky and clouds).

  3. Raw material constraints are not an issue for solar thermal power plants. For PV your kilometrage varies. ECN in the Netherlands did a study of how much of each type of PV you could possibly use given the constraints of raw materials. For silicon-based PV the limit is so high that you could produce several times the total power needs of the world using only Si-based PV before you run out of the limiting raw material (silver). For other technologies the limits are a bit more severe (something like 1/3 of the total power consumption of the world).

  4. Running an electric car with a battery will be a bit different from your normal petrol/diesel car, but not that different. You should still be able to go a few hundred km between charges. And I see no fundamental reason why you can't have battery replacement stations the way you have fuelling stations now. Someone recently suggested to do just that in Israel. I would say that having an electric car with a range half that of a petrol car is much less disruptive than your suggestion that we may have to do without individual transport at all.

  5. Storage of energy is an issue for solar energy if it reaches really high penetration in the energy production of society. But in this case electric car batteries will actually help, since all the cars in Europe together would have a lot of storage capacities in their batteries.

Tom

Real capricorns don't believe in astrology.
by tomhuld (thomas punkt huld at jrc punkt it) on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 at 06:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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