Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Everything you said is obvious lie as Chinese themselves were under the rule of foreign Manchu dynasty till 1911. Only in the last period Manchus tried to assimilate themselves into Chinese mainstream, but were not fully accepted (just read about Boxer rebellion and their slogans and derogatory songs).

Tibetans do not owe their civilisation, religion and culture to China in any way, and their country was occupied and their culture, religion and way of life were brutally suppressed since 1950. More astonishing that China still continue to claim some Indian territories like Arunachal Pradesh claiming these lands once belonged to Tibet - no surprise how locals think of such horrible perspective. Sheer hypocrisy, callous and imperialist designs - that's how inhabitants of these Buddhist regions think of Chinese policies.

If some did not know here I am neither Tibetan nor Indian to be biased by origin. I know and can speak about many negative features of Tibetans and Indians and their policies, but these do not overshadow the clear picture of atrocities committed by China in Tibet. In my view you just try to justify unjustifiable.

by FarEasterner on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 at 07:56:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't appreciate being called a liar.

Especially given that I've been more than respectful in presenting the counterpoint, and that at root, the source of dissension is as much one of interpretation of fact as it is one of ideological beliefs. We've had similar discussions on Afghanistan (where I've actually been at) and held the undoubtedly just as unpopular view on this matter that Afghanistan would have been far better off if the Saudi Americans and their mujahideen proxies had been defeated by the Soviets and Najibullah, while bad, was far better than who (and what) came thanks to the Saudi Americans.

For me, this is a very similar discussion at the ideological level. Same part of the world, too, buffer areas of hardscrabble between very large and competing regional imperial powers (one of which you current reside in). And, while the Dalai Lama presents an admirable, sympathetic, noble face for his people and his cause, I think you know that as he has moved more and more towards inclusionary, progressive views of the future and of relations with Beijing and the Han people who live in Tibet, the exile community has in inverse proportion gotten quite nervous about him. This brings to the fore the obvious question of who succeeds the Dalai Lama after his death, and what all of this means to future progress, plurality human rights and human gains not in this decade, but in future decades as well.

Again, I really do not appreciate being called a liar.    


The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 at 03:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I wanted to say un-truth but later realized that un-truth and lie are the same.

Didn't you say that "Tibet has been part of China since before the white man..." - you do feel comfortable with such distortion of history?

And yet you proceed to invoke some long-overdue sympathy for treatment China suffered at the hands of European powers and Japan then spinning into what real aspirations of Tibetans are (surprise, surprise in one-party state).

If you don't appreciate to be called a liar, you had better to think whether your statements are independently verifyable or not in advance.

by FarEasterner on Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 at 10:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lie carries an intentional distortion, "You know that this is not true, but you are saying it anyway".

If it is untrue this can either be becuase it is a lie or because it is factually incorrect and the other person is unaware of it.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 24th, 2008 at 10:14:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Everything you said is obvious lie

I'm not an FP'er, but there was no need for saying that, FarEasterner.

It only diminishes your point.

Which is a shame, because this has been an interesting thread and Diary.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 at 04:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It may not be personal, I read it as "lie [of the PRC]". It may also be a poorly picked word (i.e. instead of "falsehood") from someone not with English as first languege like you and redstar. So I won't flag it as FP.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 at 04:41:33 PM EST
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I'd buy that if anything I said in the comment he was responding to in any way made referenced to, or was sourced from, PRC press, government statements and whatnot.

Understood english as second language, something i deal with all the time, but i don't think that's what was going on here.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 at 06:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't and won't be shy when some shamelessly spread false information espcially here, right beneath my diary.

If you feel comfortable with lies it's up to you.

by FarEasterner on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 05:49:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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