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So, I give this person I've never met before some wine, and he or she gives me a shiny coin.  Tomorrow I take the shiny coin and give it to someone else for something that's not wine, and sooner or later that shiny coin (or it's equivalent) will be back with the person who gave it to me, given to him or her in return for something given by...getting rid of money doesn't change the power game, just different tools are used.

But it DOES change the power game to use money!  If you have to exchange the wine for "something that's not wine" through MONEY, you've granted power to those who print the money, the possessors of seigniorage.

Thanks for commenting.

"Imagine all the people/ Sharing all the world" -- John Lennon

by Cassiodorus on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 07:58:41 AM EST
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What I mean is, "taking ten percent off the top" doesn't stop because you remove money from the equation; it just means that the 10% will be measured with another instrument (10% of the crop; 10% from your ration book, etc--)

Also, I understand that this diary is dealing specifically with the US fiat money system, but that's not the only money system--I was thinking of money as the abstraction-of-exchange (something like that ;)--in your point 19 your workers' money will still have the same issues: someone will be responsible for producing value tokens, the production of which does not equal the value of the token--I was trying to think of other examples where the item produced has a social value that the producer is (in order to avoid seigniorage) obliged to forgo in order to keep the process running--maybe law enforcement, or any form of security, where the payment for the security is less than the value of the items secured.  These seem (to me as I type) to be problems inherent in any system where valuable items are in circulation and/or are in storage--how would your workers in 19. resolve it?  I would assume that the shiny coin-wine transaction could happen under the same scenarios.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 10:57:28 AM EST
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Oh, sure -- exploitation did not come into being with the invention of money.  Yeah I agree.

And, yeah, the US fiat money system is not the only money system.  Worker's money will have issues, but they will not be the same issues.  

As for worker's money, actually what Hutchinson, Mellor, and Olsen are doing in The Politics of Money, the book I reviewed, is playing with the "social credit" ideas of Clifford Hugh Douglas, so yeah there is a line of authorship for these ideas.  

The main idea of worker's money as I see it will be to invest the power of seigniorage locally, in the hands of democratic communities of workers.  That way you don't have toploaded economies, which are one of the main economic problems of our time (especially here in the US).  And the folks possessed of seigniorage are the ones doing the work.  Since under any money system someone has to have seigniorage, you have to be careful in choosing that person or group.

Douglas, as I understand him, suggested two types of credit: the "consumer's credit," which would grant everyone a fair standard of living, and the "producer's credit," which would compensate business producers for start-up costs and otherwise make up for the general prohibition on business avarice in what would be a democratically-regulated economy.

A democratically-regulated economy would be the best way of tackling global warming, i argue, because in such an economy everyone would be responsible, individually and collectively, for the problem, rather than throwing up their hands and saying "what can one person do?"

"Imagine all the people/ Sharing all the world" -- John Lennon

by Cassiodorus on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 11:59:05 AM EST
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