Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Some strange historical assertions here.  I have read a LOT of history books about WWII and there are very few of your arguments that I find true.

  1. Britain was not much of a target for Germany.  After the Battle of Britain, the Germans decided that there was little on that island worth having so they turned their attention east.

  2. It is VERY unlikely the Germans could have ever won against USSR.  If you measure battles by people involved and casualties, 95% of what is called WW II was between USSR and Germany.  The "contributions" toward the defeat of the Wehrmacht by the Western countries were barely important.  And only the delusional would consider Montgomery's efforts meaningful.

  3. The contributions of the so-called Western mil-ind complex in building up German power was tiny.  Just remember, the provisions in the Versailles Treaty were extracting wealth from Germany at FAR greater rates than the monetary flows in the opposite direction.  Remember also that German industrialization had blown by England's long before 1914 so they hardly needed western mil-ind "help."

The outcome of WW II would have been to total domination of Europe by Stalin's forces if USA and Britain had stayed out of the conflict after Barbarossa.  I really do not see how the history of the era can be read any other way.  Of course, that doesn't mean other histories are not told.  In fact, it is a rare American who even KNOWS the USSR was involved in WW II--much less the role of the Red Army in the defeat of the Wehrmacht.  Unfortunately, it sounds like the "history" taught in Britain is just as goofy as the history we were taught.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"
by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Sun Apr 27th, 2008 at 11:12:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1. Britain was a propaganda target as well as a physical target. The UK still had an empire, and bringing down that empire would have created more than a few ripples. It would have meant the literal end of Europe.

Strategically the UK supported the European resistance movements, provided a useful airstrip for mainland bomber attacks, and also controlled access to the Atlantic. The Nazis managed to battle their way through some of the time, but with Britain defeated, Germany would have had unlimited naval options, supported by unlimited air power for Barbarossa.

There was nothing goofy about the UK's role. With the UK defeated, Hitler would have had far more resources with which to push eastwards.

2. Montgomery is an open question - for every book claiming he's delusional there's another claiming he was a genius. And the Nazis didn't need to beat the USSR. All they needed to do was beat the Russians back from the prime industrial and agricultural resources in the West.

There's a good case to be made for Hitler personally losing on the Eastern Front because he was about as comptetent a general as Dubya is. But without the UK as a distraction, the Luftwaffe could have been moved East, making it possible to push for a grab for Russian factories and oil as well as, rather than instead of, Stalingrad. With much of the industrial base gone, Stalin would have had a much tougher time offering credible opposition.

It's likely the two sides would have fought themselves to a standstill in a war of attrition eventually, but it would have been further East, with a much more uncertain outcome.

Also, don't forget Germany had a huge lead in technology - computing, rocketry jet propulsion were all ahead of anything the allies had. As I said, without the UK the Manhattan Project would either never have happened or happened much more slowly, so there's a not-quite-zero possibility of the Nazis developing the Bomb before anyone else.

Germany with the Bomb would have been invincible.

3. See previous link.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Apr 27th, 2008 at 12:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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