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On politics, they say everyone said that the government is hard at work to build the New Russia image, and that as part of it, there is an effort to remove old Soviet and communist symbols where they aren't historically protected. The closure of Lenin's mausoleum is allegedly a decided matter (on which they confirm what I heard elsewhere, that most locals think the display of Lenin's mummy is something silly). They also listened to rants to the tune that Lenin & the communists have ruined Russia (uhm, was what was there before really that good? Not to mention the ruin by the Nazis?)

Must be just that people they were talking to were anti-communists. There may be too many streets and monuments dedicated to revolutionaries, but attempting to rewrite history 90 years after the fact or to re-fight a virtual civil war is a bit stupid.

Orthodox church made a few noises recently about communism (I understand that this must be coming from the Foreign Russian Orthodox church which formally reunited with Russian Orthodox) and general tone of the blog/media comments was that church is risking followers if it is to push for anti-communist campaign: for one, the church is overstepping boundaries by talking politics, and secondly, communists left the church and religion alone, and church should do the same for the communists.  

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 12:51:47 AM EST
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Talking about "official":

Russian MFA Information and Press Department Commentary in Connection with the Signing by the US President of the Proclamation on Captive Nations Week, 2008


Last week US President George Bush signed a regular proclamation on the theme of "captive nations," with which he annually comes up on the basis of a law adopted way back in the Cold War era. Well, it's business as usual, but this time around one "novelty" has appeared: quite unambiguously the equal sign is put between Nazi fascism and Soviet communism, which are now coupled as a "single evil" of the 20th century.

By the way, one cannot but see that such assessments simply feed the efforts of those, who for political and selfish ends are striving to falsify the facts and rewrite history. All this takes place against the backdrop of the surprising tolerance being shown in the United States toward those who in a number of European countries are trying to whitewash "their own" Nazi accomplices.

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 12:55:26 AM EST
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At what point did Nazism and the Soviet Union/Communism become interchangeable evils?  

I remember being taught that both were baaaad growing up, but there seems to be a recent concerted effort to link the two indelibly.  Which seems a bit rich to me.  And kinda weird since, you know, the Soviet Union is now defunct and it seems the time has passed for propaganda and demonization.  Seems like this would be the time to begin to look back and try to understand what happened, why it happened, what can be learned from it.  Also, it seems pointedly aimed at Russia, solely Russia (not countries in which some people collaborated with Russia, not places like Ukraine, not Communist countries that, uhm, still exist, etc.) and at all of Russia, as if it were some monolithic entity collectively responsible for everything that happened.  Also, and this is probably what gets me the most, Nazism required human rights violations, atrocities.  The extermination of ethnic peoples was part and parcel of the ideology.  Atrocities were committed in the name of Communism (as we've also seen them committed in the name of Democracy and Christianity and so on) but were not exactly the cornerstone of the ideology.  I have to struggle to find anything redeeming whatsoever about Nazism (can't) but it's -to me- possible to understand and even appreciate the noble and humane sentiments inherent in Communism.  And even now, I repeatedly hear those who lived under Soviet regime lament the loss of some of aspects of life which seemed more humane than what has replaced it, without nec. calling for a return to those days.  This is so completely lost on Americans.  They hear "Communism" and think "pogroms, gulags, censorship."  Which are in fact things we should condemn.  But that's not exactly the whole story...  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 12:41:52 PM EST
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The anti-Lenin ranters they mentioned were certainly anti-communists (whether religious or nationalist, I can't tell from what I heard second-hand; only that they weren't anti-Putin liberal intelligentsia), but they mentioned the programmatic removal of symbols as something coming up as observation in several discussions with strangers (in a café or on a boat or at a marketplace). (They might have been disapproving communists as well!)

communists left the church and religion alone

Do you mean after 1991, or after Stalin, or throughout?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 02:51:03 AM EST
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but they mentioned the programmatic removal of symbols as something coming up as observation in several discussions with strangers

Attitude to the communists did not change much, and when did, became slightly more positive. Consensus is that Russians in XX century suffered more from the Nazis and Anglo-Saxon free marketeers than from the communists.

Say, in Levada poll the question "What October Revolution brought to the people of Russia", "new era in their history" was the opinion of 23% in 1990 and 30% in 2006, "gave impulse of social and economic development" gets 26%/28%, "slowed down their development" is at 18%/16% and "was a catastrophe" for 12%/10%.

communists left the church and religion alone

Do you mean after 1991, or after Stalin, or throughout?

State stopped attempts to eradicate church in 30ies, more or less official truce started in 41 and after the war church was left alone in "don't ask don't tell" style.

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 03:22:41 AM EST
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About the poll results, thanks, interesting! However, here the question is not what the people think, but what the authorities think who (at least allegedly) pursue that policy.

About the latter, OK that way. I add that Khrushchev also conducted an anti-Church campaign, where the irony is that he is buried at Novodevichy Monastery (which my sister also visited).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 05:05:49 AM EST
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I have not heard of any such policy at the federal level, locally there may be under the radar street renamings and removals of monuments to Lenin.

Authorities do not want to deal with demonstrations of the  elderly and leftist youth and pick up a fight with communists, the largest opposition party, so I would not expect anything that could be considered as symbolic or be too visible: this kind of political capital can be spent on something more tangible. In particular, this means that Lenin is going to stay in mausoleum.

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 05:29:53 AM EST
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... authorities think who (at least allegedly) pursue that policy.

I've not heard this before.  What I have heard is much moaning about Putin's attempt to integrate symbolism, etc, from the "bad old days" into contemporary Russian national identity (lots of brouhaha regarding the national anthem and textbooks, which are "official...")   So I wonder, if these anecdotes are correct, if we're seeing the beginnings of Medvedev's great Westernization of Liberalization of Russia, as so many have prayed for.  Lol.  Sometimes I can't tell if he's meant to be Putin's puppet or the next Peter the Great!  I'm deeply suspect of either claim...

About the latter, OK that way. I add that Khrushchev also conducted an anti-Church campaign, where the irony is that he is buried at Novodevichy Monastery (which my sister also visited).

So I had to do a bit of research to know what you were talking about.  It seems he did in fact do this toward the end of his regime.  But wasn't he primarily known for his "thaw", which relaxed some of the official repression, censorship, etc?  I believe (though I cannot remember the title) there was even an openly Christian Soviet film made during the time.  It was banned, but shown originally.  I might be wrong.  Also, I've been reading these "memoirs" of Limonov, and he talks about some friends of his who were religious when he was a kid (under Krushchev.)  They didn't seem to be in any official danger for being so, just considered backwards and weird by a lot of people.  

BTW, did your sister like Novodevichy?  I think it is one of the most serene and beautiful spots in Moscow.  A good place to go to clear your mind.  If cemeteries don't freak you out.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 12:59:11 PM EST
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