Odds & Ends: Manta Ray of Political Analysis Edition | 55 comments (55 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Off-topic but... (none / 0)

The anti-Lenin ranters they mentioned were certainly anti-communists (whether religious or nationalist, I can't tell from what I heard second-hand; only that they weren't anti-Putin liberal intelligentsia), but they mentioned the programmatic removal of symbols as something coming up as observation in several discussions with strangers (in a café or on a boat or at a marketplace). (They might have been disapproving communists as well!)

communists left the church and religion alone

Do you mean after 1991, or after Stalin, or throughout?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 02:51:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Off-topic but... (4.00 / 3)

but they mentioned the programmatic removal of symbols as something coming up as observation in several discussions with strangers

Attitude to the communists did not change much, and when did, became slightly more positive. Consensus is that Russians in XX century suffered more from the Nazis and Anglo-Saxon free marketeers than from the communists.

Say, in Levada poll the question "What October Revolution brought to the people of Russia", "new era in their history" was the opinion of 23% in 1990 and 30% in 2006, "gave impulse of social and economic development" gets 26%/28%, "slowed down their development" is at 18%/16% and "was a catastrophe" for 12%/10%.

communists left the church and religion alone

Do you mean after 1991, or after Stalin, or throughout?

State stopped attempts to eradicate church in 30ies, more or less official truce started in 41 and after the war church was left alone in "don't ask don't tell" style.

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 03:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Off-topic but... (none / 0)

About the poll results, thanks, interesting! However, here the question is not what the people think, but what the authorities think who (at least allegedly) pursue that policy.

About the latter, OK that way. I add that Khrushchev also conducted an anti-Church campaign, where the irony is that he is buried at Novodevichy Monastery (which my sister also visited).

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 05:05:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Off-topic but... (none / 1)

I have not heard of any such policy at the federal level, locally there may be under the radar street renamings and removals of monuments to Lenin.

Authorities do not want to deal with demonstrations of the elderly and leftist youth and pick up a fight with communists, the largest opposition party, so I would not expect anything that could be considered as symbolic or be too visible: this kind of political capital can be spent on something more tangible. In particular, this means that Lenin is going to stay in mausoleum.

by blackhawk on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 05:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Off-topic but... (none / 0)

... authorities think who (at least allegedly) pursue that policy.

I've not heard this before. What I have heard is much moaning about Putin's attempt to integrate symbolism, etc, from the "bad old days" into contemporary Russian national identity (lots of brouhaha regarding the national anthem and textbooks, which are "official...") So I wonder, if these anecdotes are correct, if we're seeing the beginnings of Medvedev's great Westernization of Liberalization of Russia, as so many have prayed for. Lol. Sometimes I can't tell if he's meant to be Putin's puppet or the next Peter the Great! I'm deeply suspect of either claim...

About the latter, OK that way. I add that Khrushchev also conducted an anti-Church campaign, where the irony is that he is buried at Novodevichy Monastery (which my sister also visited).

So I had to do a bit of research to know what you were talking about. It seems he did in fact do this toward the end of his regime. But wasn't he primarily known for his "thaw", which relaxed some of the official repression, censorship, etc? I believe (though I cannot remember the title) there was even an openly Christian Soviet film made during the time. It was banned, but shown originally. I might be wrong. Also, I've been reading these "memoirs" of Limonov, and he talks about some friends of his who were religious when he was a kid (under Krushchev.) They didn't seem to be in any official danger for being so, just considered backwards and weird by a lot of people.

BTW, did your sister like Novodevichy? I think it is one of the most serene and beautiful spots in Moscow. A good place to go to clear your mind. If cemeteries don't freak you out.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 12:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Odds & Ends: Manta Ray of Political Analysis Edition | 55 comments (55 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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