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How about the North Vietnamese - could you imagine calling a soldier in their army a hero? I can make just as good an argument that one can't as I can for those on the American side.

How about Germans who fought in WWI, or 1870? How about those who fought in the Red Army in WWII?

NB - if you don't want your diary read by Americans, find a site which they don't frequent.

by MarekNYC on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 07:45:33 PM EST


I do consider the North Vietnamese soldiers as much heroes as any American draftees.

Look, conscripted soldiers do what they HAVE to do. IF they can't get the fuck OUT, they do what they have to do -- they survive.

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor (myleftwing@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 07:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What the fuck is a HERO, anyway?

A hero is someone who saves a life, right? Well... saving your own ass counts.

As long as you don't commit a fucking crime against goddamned humanity, man -- you do what you HAVE to do to survive, you  get the fuck out of there, you make amends for whatever sins you feel you've committed in your time on earth, you live as good a life as you can... you get the fuck through it.

Jesus, isn't that what we all end up doing?

If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution

by Maryscott OConnor (myleftwing@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 07:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about the North Vietnamese - could you imagine calling a soldier in their army a hero? I can make just as good an argument that one can't as I can for those on the American side.

I'm not aware of the details of the Vietnam war. If you imply that I would have implied Nort Vietnamese soldiers were heros, then you are wrong.

No I do not think the Germans in WW I were heros and I don't think the ones fighting in 1870 were heros, even when I consider that war not as criminal.

The soldiers of the Red Army in WW II may have earned such a title, but so far I have never used it. I have however used it already to describe African American soldiers in WW II, who fought not only like every other American in WW II, for the freedom of foreign countries, but as well for their own country, where they had not full citizen rights, and for the economic wellbeing of their country, of which they hadn't the chance to fully participate.

NB - it is fine when Americans read this. I don't complain. But when they are insulted by the incredible denial of respect for military service I portray, it is their own problem.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 08:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't have a problem with that. What I minded was the idea that fighting for the US in 1968 was the equivalent of fighting for Germany in 1943. I personally do consider military service heroic, however, I also feel that too much is made of it, and I really dislike the way the commander in chief aspect of the presidency is valorized over all the other things the president does. And I can see the argument for not treating military service as heroic.

As said elsewhere in the thread, Nazi Germany was a unique combination of truly horrible combined with extreme aggressiveness in a major world power.

by MarekNYC on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 11:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
was the equivalent of fighting for Germany in 1943
I didn't say it is equivalent. I took German WW II examples, because
  • I had the more personal examples at hand
  • it is the most extreme case. To use extreme cases is in science not unusual to demonstrate, that at some point a principle must break down. At which point would be an issue for discussion.
  • I thought there would be more support for the 'support the troops' tokenism, than there now seems to be. So I started caucious.


Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 06:56:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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