Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
This is so full of holes, smoke and mirrors, out of context and reality, that there is no place to start.

It's all about the Arab countries having to change, but apparently USAIsrael has no part, nor parcel to do a thing and take responsibility for the Palestinian Holocaust.  The far removed examples are distractions turning peoples and cultures into cheap theoretical formulas to be replicated.  Only for some.  On and on.

Another intellectual exercise of distorting and renaming excuses.  Are you prepared to be permanently exiled from 'your' land and country for $50-100K, be accepted into another country's little reservation, to start from zero?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 09:08:02 PM EST
That may be unfair to Robert, who always seems to post in good faith here.

I think it's not a solvable problem - at least not in any of the available frames. There are vested interests which find war much more amenable than peace would be, and even if - as usual - most of the local populations want peace, the leaders don't. Since rounding up the leaders and shipping them to Gitmo and/or the Hague isn't likely - here we are.

Besides, if someone blew up my relatives and starved them of food and medical attention I couldn't in all honesty say that I might not feel like killing them too. Violence will do that to people.

A modest proposal would be to move everyone out of the area and turn it into radioactive glass. With no more farcical claims to historical territoriality to argue over, everyone involved would have to start living in the 21st Century. Compensation could sweeten the deal. This would have the added benefit of making the heads of all of the Armaggedonites and fundies in the US explode - they'd have to find some other cranky and drugged-up biblical 'prophecy' to bounce up and down on.

Of course this isn't a practical solution, or even a humane one.

But it's frightening that it's likely to be more humane than any default alternative.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 12:57:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I stopped reading at some point when it was evident that this guy is proposing the South African Afrikaaner solution to the IP conflict: bantustans for the Palestinians living surrounded by IDF, presumably, while Israelis take the remaining land and presumably would just annex the Palestinian territories. The US pays off the 5 million Palestinian refugees and they change their ethnic identity into the country they happen to be. UNWRA disappears, an impediment. Jerusalem? And what about the bantustans? Palestinians become, as Blacks did in South Africa, cheap labor for Israel.

So it is Greater Israel uber alles; most Palestinians disappear.

If I were a Palestinian living in Britain, I'd give this puke the two finger sign; if I were living in the US, I'd give him the third finger.

Waste of time.

by shergald on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 03:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The nice thing about any discussions you ever get into is that you always read your own positions into other people's postings.

I proposed none of the things you mentioned. Apparently reading to the end to find out what the real point was is too much trouble for you since you already know all the answers.

Negativity is easy, but unproductive.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 03:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pushing Apartheid is nothing less that a proZionist disenfranchisement of the Palestinian people.

You apparently never bothered to look up the political agendas vis a vis Palestine of the major Israeli political parties. If you had you would have found your proposal redundant and right out of the Labor and Kadima positions: no Palestinian state, bantustans will suffice. At least you did not push any Likud suggestions.

by shergald on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You should quote the parts where rdf supports bantustans... because I can't seem to find them.

The proposal is probably unworkable for other reasons (paying for resettlement is all well and fine, but 1) people would have to be willing to settle elsewhere, and 2) you'd have to find states willing to take the resettled people, neither of which is a trivial obstacle), but for the life of me I can't figure out where the bantustans come in.

I can't figure out why rdf seems to consider a reversion to the pre-67 Egyptian and Jordanian borders preferable to a Palestinian state, though. For one thing, neither Egypt nor Jordan currently want that, for a variety of mostly excellent reasons.

That said, it's not obvious that a Gaza exclave to a Palestinian state - let alone a sovereign state in Gaza - is sustainable, and I think that those of us who advocate a two-state solution would be wise to pay some thought to the fact that Gaza runs a serious risk of becoming a Kaliningrad writ small.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:33:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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