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We're in an existential situation. It's easy for Europeans to explain to the cop on the beat that he's being too crude in his remedies, but he's working in the rough neighborhood their tragedy of the commons created.
Terrorism is not an existential threat. In terms of actual damage, it ranks rather far below many things that we could solve at least partly and yet have no problems living with or treating as statistics... As a political tool, it's only effective in so far as we overreact to it.
The "cop on the beat" mindset is, to a large extent, the biggest danger we face. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
Sorry to offend, but I speak my mind. I note that the dismissing isn't on a factual basis, but by reference to the constant "refutation" so I guess someone will supply a link to the FAQ about how everything is all right. The banlieus, slums, Turkey v. secular, Hungary, British racism, Germany v guest workers, Italy v itself, Spain v ETA, right wing parties springing up. And the global economic interactions seem to be hovering on the edge.
What I see in Europe, and yes, I've visited, is the same political paralysis of analysis I see in Berkeley and San Francisco, which I've been actively following since 1960.
Yes, technical solutions are wonderful, but Copenhagen wasn't very hopeful, and we're reacting, not pro-acting, and in that situation, you're possibly doing a holding action until chaos throws you a curve ball you can't hit.
It's not that Europe doesn't mean well. It's that after a certain level of governmental funk is reached, the malleable mob turns to the Man on the White Horse. I'd love to follow Candide, but reality has been my guide so far.
I guess the applicable quote is Adlai Stevenson, who, when someone from an election crowd yelled out "All us intellectuals will vote for you, Adlai!" quipped back:
"Yes, but I need more than 20%!"
So I'm always looking for that insight into the mob that translates all these wonderful ideas into legislation that beats the shortsighted corporations. It's always Golem we're battling, it seems.
Merry Christmas. Keep up the good work. Maybe my kid will be installing windmills soon. Be more fun than fighting in Iraq... Donate to Wikipedia!
I say "if", however, because frankly, it doesn't look like you've been paying much attention to what we have been discussing here.
I'd hate to be rude on Christmas , but I hope you won't mind if I'm being blunt here.
You know as well as we do that there's no such thing as "the FAQ about how everything is all right": if you've been paying any attention, you know we have never shied away from the issues you listed, quite the opposite.
What we take exception to, is the characterization of an impotent Europe that is lazily letting itself slide into a phantasmagorical "clash of civilization" and other alleged failures to protect our "ethnicities" and cultures, while America, at least is supposedly acting instead of dithering.
This is European extreme right language and is now being regurgitated by the mainstream right in an attempt to stroke their electoral good fortunes. As afew and Jerome said, this is also straight out of the neo-con playbook.
But this is only one minor point: the main point is, and you'll have to read part of my French here, that this is complete bullshit.
And as for the American Exceptionalism schitck, America-is-acting-while-Europe-is-dithering: peuh-leease...
How pray tell has America's action been part of the solution instead of part of the problem? How about stopping digging first?
The standard here is that you demonstrate your allegations; the burden of the proof is squarely on you.
We tend to respect people who know what they are talking about (and this is a reason, BTW, why Jerome has built a loyal following on DK). On the other hand, people who show up and start talking authoritatively about Europe while unwittingly showing how they don't know jack are to expect some pushback.
What I'm trying to say here is that I'm afraid you've really made an ass of yourself. And that's too bad because you've started an interesting discussion. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
You answered NO point. Align culture with our nature. Ot else!
However, your statements and opinions are absolutely fair game: you exposed some views that several of us dismissed as long debunked and discredited neo-con vulgate. So, please, let me ask you again: Would you care to demonstrate?
Spain v ETA
It has to be noted that almost in any Spanish jail there is a group of ETA prisoners, as the number of ETA prisoners makes it difficult to disperse them.
Under Article 509 suspected terrorists are subject to being held "incommunicado" for up to thirteen days, during which they have no contact with the outside world other than through the court appointed lawyer, including informing their family of their arrest, consultation with private lawyers or examination by a physician other than the coroners. In comparison the habeas corpus term for other suspects is three days.
In January 2009, ETA threatened that engineers, senior technicians and executives of companies involved in the construction of the high-speed train line would be targets for assassination as well.
Sounds like fun. Align culture with our nature. Ot else!
they are listed as a terrorist organization by both the European Union and the United States on their respective watchlists.
Those lists are compiled by legislative or executive bodies and not subject to judicial review. As such, they are statements of political preference rather than statements of fact.
Any given organisation on the lists may or may not be a terrorist outfit (and ETA probably is, along with what's left of the IRA). But its presence on the lists does not in and of itself tell you anything about it. Except that it has attracted the ire of the US State Department.
(For those keeping score of such matters, the Basques are overwhelmingly Catholic, when they are religiously affiliated at all.)
- Jake Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
The War Nerd: Basques My Ass! (The Exile, March 11 2004)
The ETA is a good example of what I call "boutique terrorism." It's the kind of war where the rebels kill a few carefully-picked people a year, usually local government officials or cops, just to remind the locals that they're still around and get a little free publicity for their "cause." The Corsican separatists are the same kind of pitiful wimps, and the IRA isn't much better. In about 30 years of "war" against the English, the IRA killed about 1,300 people. That's 40-odd people per year. Less than a three-day weekend kill total for Los Angeles. The only reason these Irish wimps have such a big bad rep is that the British hype them so much, just because don't want to admit they had so much trouble with a neighborhood possie of illiterate drunks. These aren't armies -- they're little ethnic gangs, like Crips for white guys with a grudge and a lot of free time on their hands. Even the Spanish police, who do their best to hype the ETA the same way the British do the IRA, admit that there are only a few dozen guys active in the ETA. In this kind of war, the rebels go way out of their way to see that they only hit the right people. Spain is a rich Western country, with lots of videocameras wandering around. The last thing the ETA wants is to lose the propaganda war by shredding a bunch of civilians. They'd rather do nothing than deal with bad publicity like that. So they spend months and months setting up some poor Spanish Guardia Civil cop or pro-Spanish Basque politician, then hit him when they're sure nobody else will get hurt. They mess up sometimes -- these aren't the brightest guys in the world -- but the whole notion they'd set off a dozen no-warning bombs in the Madrid train system was just totally ridiculous.
These aren't armies -- they're little ethnic gangs, like Crips for white guys with a grudge and a lot of free time on their hands. Even the Spanish police, who do their best to hype the ETA the same way the British do the IRA, admit that there are only a few dozen guys active in the ETA.
In this kind of war, the rebels go way out of their way to see that they only hit the right people. Spain is a rich Western country, with lots of videocameras wandering around. The last thing the ETA wants is to lose the propaganda war by shredding a bunch of civilians. They'd rather do nothing than deal with bad publicity like that. So they spend months and months setting up some poor Spanish Guardia Civil cop or pro-Spanish Basque politician, then hit him when they're sure nobody else will get hurt. They mess up sometimes -- these aren't the brightest guys in the world -- but the whole notion they'd set off a dozen no-warning bombs in the Madrid train system was just totally ridiculous.
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