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I don't know what the fuck SA has to do with anything other than pitching relief for Zenawi.
Was Southafrica implicitly recognised as the African hegemon, or was it the token African nation in the deal?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 09:02:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am under the impression that China, India, Brazil and South Africa has established a standing cooperation (represented by the acronym CIBS or IBSAC) in international negotiations like WTO, primarily in response to the EU, USA and Japan dealing amongst themselves.

So my guess would be that South Africa has a given place in their cooperation. That place might in itself be a reflection of its status as African hegemon.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 12:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why has South Africa replaced Russia from BRIC? Did BRIC never exist outside the feverish imagination of the neocons? Was the Shanghai Cooperation Organization a mirage?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 12:37:22 PM EST
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Migeru:
Did BRIC never exist outside the feverish imagination of the neocons?

Well, they actually had a summit last summer.

BRIC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The BRIC countries met for their first official summit on 16 June 2009, in Yekaterinburg, Russia,[19] with Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, Dmitry Medvedev, Manmohan Singh, and Hu Jintao, the respective leaders of Brazil, Russia, India and China, all attending.

But one summit does not build an organization. (And how long before that have we not heard about the BRIC-bogeyman?)

Brazil, South Africa, India and China has cooperated at least since 2001.

Doha Development Round - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most significant differences are between developed nations led by the European Union (EU), the United States (USA), and Japan and the major developing countries led and represented mainly by India, Brazil, China, and South Africa.

They do not appear to always cooperate, but between them they probably has massive power in the G-77, and it is in their interests to keep it this way, by not being split by the JEUUS (Japan, EU and US, (I can also create abbreviations)).

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:49:15 PM EST
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Renders better as Japan, European States, and US!

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 07:24:10 AM EST
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as opposed to CHina, Russia, India, South africa and Taiwan?  Brazil, Uraguay, Dominican repub, Argentina, Honduras?  Alebanon, liberia, arabia h
by njh on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 07:36:35 AM EST
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stupid uneditable posts.  left as an exercise for the bored :)
by njh on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 07:37:29 AM EST
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India is not in the SCO?

For the climate arena, the views of Russia are immaterial, insofar as they will be easily bought off.

Besides, people started talking about BRICS some time ago?

Don't know what the deal with SA is because there are several countries more populous and powerful (Indonesia, to take one, or Mexico) and SA isn't very representative of sub-saharan Africa. But maybe they managed to organise the African community in some useful way to let them do the speaking?

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:20:55 PM EST
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That's a good way to construct the question. I can't help thinking though, token hegemon is the most apt description of the roles created for a "meaningful agreement" starring the only superpower. Because US diplomacy expresses itself in one of two modalities --unilateral or bilateral-- I'm afraid continental symbolism was really the driving force behind and drama of the 11th hour meeting. Asia. Africa. India. The Americas.

Europe? Oops. Who would Bush call?

Tutu rallied in Copenhagen and is sympathetic to Buh Weet's moral challeges. I can imagine the transatlantic plea, after Di-Aping metaphorically beat the crap outa Zenawi.

OBAMA: Zenawi is useless. I need your help. Can you help me?

ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU: Please, please help give the world a real deal. Give the world a real deal. Help, help, help. Make sure that there is enough money to help developing countries make the adjustment. OK?

OBAMA: Otay.
ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU: I'll leave the key to the conference room under the mat in front of door 823 by the housekeeping station on P7 east wing Q3.


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:22:14 PM EST
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I'm afraid continental symbolism was really the driving force behind and drama of the 11th hour meeting. Asia. Africa. India. The Americas.

Europe? Oops. Who would Bush call?

Reportedly Obama met with Russia's Medvedev just before his summit with China, India, Brazil and South Africa. I guess it's all of Eurasia that was left out.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:30:13 PM EST
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Stage crew always gets left out.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:53:08 PM EST
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heh, it's true...

i think europe makes them all look bad.

that's why she's getting shunned.

and we could do a lot better!

lonely at the top?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 08:45:29 PM EST
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See here.

(Planned) co-operation and development between India, Brazil and South Africa has been fairly recent, and is focused on the southern hemisphere trading between the nations. Economically, it does make sense but I don't know how practical the alliance has been.

Nor do I know if the IBSA alliance was of importance to get SA around the table in Copenhagen. But IBSA does show that an alliance with Brazil and India is not unusual for SA.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:26:27 PM EST
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