Devil's Advocate: Federal Europe | 32 comments (32 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Devil's Advocate: Federal Europe (none / 0)

It was fashionable among a small cadre of US EUphiles around the turn of the millennium to tout the coming EU dominance. The Bush years changed all that.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 04:54:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Devil's Advocate: Federal Europe (none / 0)

I'm not interested in what was or wasn't fashionable, do you have any arguments against what he says ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 06:11:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Devil's Advocate: Federal Europe (none / 0)

The EU is too inward-looking and fractious to expand beyond its current size.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 06:17:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not a matter of size (none / 1)

It's a state of mind.

And note that the EU's influence (on things like technical standards, and pretty much anything that requires sophisticated regulation) goes far beyond its formal limits.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 06:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not a matter of size (none / 0)

As I've said before, I am coming round to the view that the 'turf battles' and many other aspects of the EU bureaucracy that distribute 'power' are good. The tiny 6.3% admin costs of the EU also show that 'distributed processing' can also be cost-efficient.

The apparent redundancy of many different committees addressing the same problems is also good. etc etc. The more like the brain it gets, the better imo ;-)

The greatest danger we face in the EU is the establishment of rigid top-down hierarchies.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 08:01:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fascinating. (none / 0)

The apparent redundancy of many different committees addressing the same problems is also good. etc etc. The more like the brain it gets, the better imo ;-)
The greatest danger we face in the EU is the establishment of rigid top-down hierarchies.

Compare to the human body. The brain runs the show (rigid top-down hierarchy) and the body (the citizenry) performs the functions it is told to perform. Apparently nature "thinks" that this is a good design; check out the success of the various species with big brains. And what killed off the dinosaurs after 160 billion years? A huge rock from space that the poor bastards couldn't do anything about because they didn't have the technology.

Please notice how the successful human body deals with "dissent". Cancers (dangers from within) must be stopped and are constantly being destroyed by a healthy immune system. Invaders (bacteria, fungi, viruses) are not negotiated with; they are destroyed.

Any more brain analogies anyone? :)

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 10:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fascinating. (none / 0)

I fundamentally disagree. Any living body is bottom up, and non-linear. We are, after all, just tubes with mouths at one end and anuses at the other - everything else is simply advanced tube work.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 10:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fascinating. (none / 0)

Any living body is bottom up,

In your dreams. Sven, buddy. Stick to music/arts. It's your strength. Biology/science ain't your field.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 11:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fascinating. (none / 0)

On the contrary, it is you who have bought into a hierarchic view in your schooling. I would have thought that a lifetime of association with growing things would have disavowed you of any homunculaic thoughts ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 11:38:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where to start, where to start. (none / 0)

You may want to check your use of the word "homunculaic". dictionary.com couldn't find it, the closest that seemed correct was homuncular, a form of homunculus "a fully formed, miniature human body believed, according to some medical theories of the 16th and 17th centuries, to be contained in the spermatozoon." Not sure what you're shooting for there.
Back to this universe. What controls what. The energy for life begins in the sun, green plants trap it in the form of carbohydrates, animals eat other plants/animals. In the cell, the nucleus runs the show by keeping most of the information bottled up. Mitochondria and chloroplasts were co-opted because they were useful little buggers who could trap the sunlight and get a whole bunch of ATP out of pyruvate (glycolysis is sooo yesterday). I mention these little folks because they do have some of their own DNA. Anyway, once you hit multicellular beyond sponges, you got to keep the folks in line or you don't survive. "It's a jungle out there, I tells ya!"

Human beings must get BEYOND biology to get to the next step. Will they make it? Watch and see. That's why I'm here. That, and the chicks. Hey, have you heard? Marg Helgenberger is back on the market. And me with my bad back. Pshaw!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 12:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where to start, where to start. (none / 0)

Neologism IS beyond biology

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 12:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where to start, where to start. (none / 0)

"the introduction or use of new words or new senses of existing words."

Well, I guess it is but I don't see how it's going to,

Save the human race's bacon, or
Get Marg to start answering my emails. I mean, she must know I've been holding out for her, for just this occasion. With my back, I'd make a crappy stalker.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 at 01:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Devil's Advocate: Federal Europe | 32 comments (32 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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