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There are no London-Amsterdam trains ? that's sad, it would probably pick up some small market share at 5 hours...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 03:39:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no high-speed line between Brussels and Amsterdam. Otherwise you could probably do London-Amsterdam or Paris-Amsterdam in about 3h30.

The current fatest and earliest connection between London and Amsterdam on Saturday May 9 is

  • Eurostar: London St. Pancras 7:53 - 10:56 Brussels Midi
  • Intercity: Brussels Midi 11:15 - 14:06 Amsterdam Centraal
Gets you there just in time for lunch!

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 03:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, there is already a Thalys doing Paris-Amsterdam in just over 4h.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 04:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which mean there could be a 5 hours Amsterdam London, which is nearly competitive for someone not doing the trip for a single day...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 04:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Air distance is 428km, so that means slightly over 100km/h.  High-speed?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:21:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With several intermediate stops. For example:
Paris Nord 12:25
Bruxelles-Midi EST
Bruxelles-Midi 13:52
Antwerpen Centraal 14:34
Roosendaal(Gr)
Rotterdam Centraal
Den Haag HS 15:58
Schiphol (Airport)
Amsterdam Centraal 16:36
The first leg, 1h27 to Brussels, is "true" high-speed.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:28:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does it really stop at Roosendaal, or is that just where it crosses the border? I thought Roosendaal was the place you only got off at when the Belgian trains were on strike....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe "(Gr)" must mean Grenze (border) then. Before Schengen it would certainly have stopped and it is possible that it would still stop there.

Schengen or no Schengen, I've had my passport checked by French border police on every train I've taken between Spain and France...

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:33:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Schengen or not, the French police regularly arrests Moroccans going through France by bus to Morocco (who thus have no French papers), rounds them up and later sends them by plane to their country. At first they didn't let them keep their luggage ; after a Canard Enchainé piece about that, they let them keep it ; but they had to pay the air company the air fare for 100+ kgs of luggage if they wanted to keep it !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:17:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because Sarkozy requests that the Ministère de l'Identité Nationale, de l'Immigration et de l'Intégration throws out of the country 27,000 people a years. Because that's actually quite a high figure and hard to reach. Because Sarkozy wants the racist voters to keep voting for him.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:40:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Taking people legally in transit out of busses and flying them is a very expensive way to meet quotas.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:55:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But it's probably cheap politically... none of this messy due process crap.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:59:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, there's an economy to kickstart. Isn't State spending good now ? and that's money that isn't going to leftist public employees such as teachers.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 08:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Italians used to do that regularly at Brennero, but it seems to happen less frequently these days. Maybe the police are the only people who think the train no longer stops at Brennero, as the timetable for this year indicates. But they didn't just get a lot of engines that can run on both AC and DC. No, they still stop for 15 minutes to change the engine, just as before, and the schedule change seems to only mean that you must have an international ticket for the journey. "Seems" because in practice nothing seems to have changed even there,
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 06:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But they didn't just get a lot of engines that can run on both AC and DC. No, they still stop for 15 minutes to change the engine

There are two DC/AC types. ÖBB class 1822 from the nineties was more or less a technical failure (lots of breakdowns, not enough power); the through train ambition was given up after a few years. The new ÖBB class 1216 (also "Taurus 3") would in theory be perfect, but Italian authorities have drawn out the certification process for higher speeds on DC lines. (Italy is introducing a new train control and signalling system.) Simple technical issues might be the reason, but blind protectionism, too.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...I should add that there are a couple of other AC/DC locos using the Brenner route, but all of these are active in freight service. One special case is the FS E.412, whih in theory would be suited for 200 km/h traffic, but the whole class was given to Trenitalia Cargo. One of the idiocies of splitting up former state railways into passenger, express and freight divisions...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 07:36:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And 2h45 for 170kms, which sounds particularly low speed !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With one stop every half hour the train can barely get up to speed before slowing down again.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:35:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And probably never goes very fast if the rail line isn't set up for it. Half an hour between stops is plenty of time to reach top speed on a normal line...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:42:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The high-speed track in the Netherlands to Antwerp in Belgium is ready, but the opening has been postponed due to ERTMS issues.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Apr 9th, 2009 at 05:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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