America's apple pie threatened by loss of Central Asia's forests | 32 comments (32 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

loss of Central Asia's forests (4.00 / 3)

Hey, I just read a book called, "Apples are from Kazakhstan." I had no idea about this before I picked up that book. And not just because I thought apples were from the grocery store. Where I grew up, we had an apple-picking tradition. Every fall we'd drive to the orchards along the river and pick apples (and we NEVER managed to use them all, you couldn't even give them away, people were so sick of apples by mid-October) and reward ourselves with real apple cider (this simply cannot be found in a store) and then a meal of catfish. It was Huckleberry Finn city. Forget pie. There was simply nothing more American than a September day on the river picking apples.

So I was totally shocked to hear about Kazakhstan! But there are like thousands of apple varieties, so while losing any is bad, I don't see a world without apples.

And, this is also heartbreaking: Apple pie is not an American invention...

Kazakhstan is a relatively well developed country compared to its Central Asian neighbors. And like its neighbors, no aid is going to them without tit-for-tat. Any offer to pay to save their orchards is probably going to have something in fine print about using their country to launch missiles or extract resources. In fact, US Aid to that part of the world terrifies me more than the extinction of a few apple cultivars...

"Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms." -Dostoevsky

by poemless on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 03:37:50 PM EST

A world without apples (4.00 / 3)

What makes the two apple species of Central Asia and the other wild species important is that they survive without the assistance of modern, industrial agriculture. These plants are not evolutionary frozen by humans and so they continue to evolve to match the evolution of pests and diseases.

We have thousands of apple, but for the most part according to Forsline, those apples just have six common ancestors: Red Delicious, Golden Delicious, Jonathan, McIntosh ,and Pippin. This doesn't provide enough genetic diversity to be pest and disease resistant.

What also is special about these Central Asian fruit and nut trees is they survive in a more hostile climate than many of our domesticated versions. With climate change, such heartiness and drought-tolerance is important genetic traits.

So while a world without apples is unlikely, losing these wild species significantly reduces the genes available for horticulturists to help our apples and other fruits and nuts meet new climate and blight challenges.

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You're absolutely right the U.S. engages tit-for-tat economic aide. We currently have the Manas Air Base, in Kyrgyzstan that we use to conduct air strikes on the Taliban and, indirectly, Afghan civilians. Kyrgyzstani President Kurmanbek Bakiyev asked the U.S. to leave by April of this year, but as far as I know the U.S. is still there.

I'm not deliberately trying to make you wince at this, but according to Defense Update, Putin's Muscle Flexing in Central Asia: Challenges Obama:

Another absurdity pertains to the negotiations that the Pentagon is holding with Kyrgyzstan officials over a possible extension in maintaining Manas airbase itself. Manas, named after a Kyrgyz epic hero, gained particular importance for the United States in 2005 when Uzbekistan, another Central Asian nation, evicted U.S. troops from a military base Karshi-Kanabad airfield after a row over 'human rights'. The U.S. government paid the Kyrgys government $17.4 million a year for use of the Manas base, in addition to $150 million annual assistance, which makes a substantial sum in Kyrgyzstan's abominable economy.
This huge sum in itself, if handled wisely, should have become an important lever to get the Kyrgyzian politicians to extend the agreement for at least some years to come until the Afghan crisis is resolved. Moreover, unbelievably, only early last year, the United States government had authorized plans to spend up to $100 million to enlarge loading areas at Manas airbase! Washington and it's intelligence must have been off the mark completely, to become surprised by Bishkek's long expected move.

Saving Central Asia's forests are probably the last thing on the administration's mind.

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Lastly, I know Apple pie is not an American invention -- I believe it is German -- I was struggling for a hook to try to make this interesting for American readers who really could care less about Central Asia, let alone fruit trees.

by Magnifico on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 04:00:58 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 0)

Except for the pies and cider, apples could go extinct as far as I'm concerned. Raw ones, though delicious to eat, cause me major gastric distress. Hard to make apple cider or pie without raw apples I guess.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 06:00:45 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 1)

It is probably the apple peel that is the problem, it is one of those typical hard to digest stuff that causes stomach aches for many. So for you, I would suggest peeling the apple.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 06:38:07 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 0)

Oh, that's good to know!

Wait, I thought all the nutrients were in the skin.

"Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms." -Dostoevsky

by poemless on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 06:40:29 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 1)

Lots of nutrients are in the skin, but if you can not digest it properly, imho a peeled apple is better then no apple.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 07:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (4.00 / 2)

Also, if you buy the plastic-look-alike apples from the big supermarkets (you know what I'm talking about -the ones that can lie out in the open for a fortnight and still look fresh), you might want to remove the peel for other reasons as well...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat May 9th, 2009 at 12:39:05 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 1)

I'll have to try them without the peel. We always peel apples for our grandson who loves them. They don't seem to bother him but his young system is fit for anything within reason.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri May 8th, 2009 at 10:55:05 PM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (4.00 / 3)

One of the major advantages of apples, as compared to most other fruits, is that they reliably can be stored over the winter without mechanical refrigeration. I would hate to lose the wild species for any reason, but for apples in particular.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun May 10th, 2009 at 01:04:08 AM EST
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Re: loss of Central Asia's forests (none / 0)