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But, of course, "Jews are/did ... " is a perfectly fine construction in the appropriate context. "Eastern European Jews spoke Yiddish" is totally clear - most of us know that not all of them did so and many spoke other languages too.
by rootless2 on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:13:51 AM EST
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dodo is PNing to try and keep distinctions clear, and any possible hint of racism nipped in the bud, very worthy, but still PN, i think.

rootless is not insinuating anything, and in fact defends him/herself dispassionately.

it's good to be vigilant, but i think this is a bit over the top, as while technically true, i don't feel any bad will to the germans in rootless' comments, just perhaps a conflation, a generalisation quite appropriate for a discussion like this, all the more understandable when the family history is laid out.

it is too easy to make the nazis something 'other', and yet all european countries have abused jews throughout history, the german nazis just took it to its nightmarish conclusion most recently, so no-one here feels unsullied somewhat by our collective past in this and other regards.

the past is very much alive and much still unexpiated, by rights palestinians should hate hitler more than anyone, and this thread reveals how the phenomenon of fascism wounded so many people in so many countries, and those wounds have very thin new skin over them.

her in italy i get a distinct impression that fascism has not been processed completely, and the germans outrageousness was easy to point to, saying 'at least we never did that, when colluding was an integral part of that 'chain of pain'.

the fact that the new uber-right is gathering momentum in europe is another sad sign we have not learned our lessons well enough, that sweeping things under the historical rug is always a bad idea.

denial...

the first time i visited germany with my s.o. every time i saw a smoking chimney i felt sick, and i lost no relatives through warcrimes.

it seems obvious to me that rootless' comments are in good faith, and PNing them has led us into a forest of misunderstanding, though i applaud anyone keeping a hyperscanner alert for any whiff of racism.

it's not racist per se to state a truth, even a general one, and the guilt of nazism tainted many without german borders, even supported by 'high-class' financiers from europe and the usa.

plenty of guilt to go around, i give a lot of credit to the germans for how hard they have tried to expiate what they did, yet the comment about how many graveyards the new germany was built over was a slam to the gut.

both are right in this discussion, just talking past one another a bit, i reckon.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 02:21:22 PM EST
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