SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis | 59 comments (59 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

You don't believe al-Qaida, based in Afghanistan, were the perpetrators and instigators of the 2001 terrorist attacks?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 03:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

You don't believe al-Qaida, based in
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE,... Sudan, Egypt, Morocco, Spain...., in every hunger-ridden, muslim community in the world, including
Afghanistan, were the perpetrators and instigators of the 2001 terrorist attacks?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 04:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

But al-Qaida was not based primarily in Afghanistan, were they had their planning groups, training camps, and leadership, all with the knowledge and support of the Taliban government?

The Talibans got their chance. The US showed a very large restraint, given the circumstances. They asked the Taliban to turn over Osama and company, and then the US would ignore their aiding and abetting of al-Qaida. They said no. Their mistake.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 08:20:30 AM EST
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Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

Well, I doubt you would find hunger-ridden, muslim communities in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE... or Spain

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 09:18:38 AM EST
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Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 1)

Not all-inclusive wording? The implication is that (the crimes of) hunger, poverty and lack of education lead people to unite by belief, find a common enemy, rebel and/or migrate where they may survive.

All I know is that every few months the Spanish police report the arrest of some 'terrorist' cell associated with 'muslim beliefs' and I have seen myself small groups of muslim migrants ---mostly males--- foodless and workless, hiding and barely surviving in remote areas of Morocco (the Rif) and Spain. That does NOT make them terrorists, but the extreme conditions to create conflict, exist in our 'exceptional', western world. There are documentaries about it now, but maybe they don't apply to the 'back woods' of oil-rich countries. (;

I have to wonder how many migrants will be forced to go 'back to nature' now, in exceptionally extreme places like Italy, that criminalizes being poor-without-passport and praises vigilanteism.

The point was, I think, that accumulated misery is going global whether we like it, or not and putting the blame on one country without looking in the mirror is shameful.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 02:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

I hold no particular belief regarding the 2001 terrorist attacks. Truth in muddled and highly political situations rarely comes out until the conflict is no more relevant, and I do not expect it in this case either.

melo makes a good point regarding the nature of al-Qaida. It makes me regret that I did not choose the start of the other world war as comparision.

Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After conducting a criminal investigation, verifying that Germany would honor its military alliance, and persuading the skeptical Hungarian Count Tisza, Austria-Hungary issued a formal letter to the government of Serbia. The letter reminded Serbia of its commitment to respect the Great Powers' decision regarding Bosnia-Herzegovina, and to maintain good neighborly relations with Austria-Hungary. The letter contained specific demands aimed at preventing the publication of propaganda advocating the violent destruction of Austria-Hungary, removing the people behind this propaganda from the Serbian Military, arresting the people on Serbian soil who were involved in the assassination plot and preventing the clandestine shipment of arms and explosives from Serbia to Austria-Hungary.

July Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Confronted with the ultimatum and the lack of support from other European powers, the Serbian Cabinet hemmed and hawed about whether to accept the humiliating terms, or reject it with the knowledge that a war would come^[114]. Finally, all compromise was worked out where Serbia accepted all of the terms of the ultimatum except for the demand that Austrian police be allowed to operate in Serbia, but attached a number of reservations to the other terms^[115].

Of course, we know how that ended:
Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associated Powers and Austria; Protocol, Declaration and Special Declaration [1920] ATS 3

The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Austria accepts the responsibility of Austria and her Allies for causing the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Austria-Hungary and her Allies.

To be compared with:

Portsmouth Herald World/National News: U.S. Jets Pound Targets Around Kabul

Taliban Deputy Prime Minister Haji Abdul Kabir offered Sunday to surrender bin Laden for trial in an unspecified third country if Washington stopped the bombing and provided the Taliban with evidence of the Saudi dissident's guilt. Bush said no.
``We know he's guilty. Turn him over,'' the president said in Washington.

Which would mean that the US is by the standard imposed by England, France and the US responsible for starting the war in Afghanistan. Which no swedish government would say.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 04:38:36 PM EST
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Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 1)

A swedish kind of death: