SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis | 59 comments (59 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

In the german radio broadcast dradio.de, there was an
interview with Lars Gustafsson, who told that Aftonbladet
was under german control(!) during WW2 and is until today somehow anti-semitic.

Hear for (short version, long version) yourself.

Now what ?

by pi (etribu-at-opsec.eu) on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 08:35:42 AM EST

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

During its existence, Aftonbladet has leant in different political directions. Initially liberal, it drifted towards conservatism under Harald Sohlman, Editor in Chief from 1890 to 1921. During World War I, a majority holding was sold to the German government in a secret arrangement.
In 1929 the newspaper came under the control of the Kreuger family, when a majority of the shares was bought by Swedish Match, at that time the heart of Ivar Kreuger's corporate empire. Aftonbladet was labelled "neutral". In 1932 it backed Per Albin Hansson's new Social Democratic government. Just a few years later it realigned with the Liberal Party and turned to advocate liberal politics. Heavily influenced by pro-German staff members, the newspaper supported Germany during World War II.
The Kreuger era came to an end on 8 October 1956. Despite interest from both the Liberal Party and the Centre Party, Torsten Kreuger sold Aftonbladet to the Swedish Trade Union Confederation. The ownership change was first followed by a slight drop in circulation. In the 1960s, however, the newspaper saw its circulation surge rapidly, peaking at 507,000.
By the early 1990s Aftonbladet had run into economical problems, and many had begun to question the competence of the trade union movement as a media owner. On 2 May 1996, the Norwegian media group Schibsted acquired a 49.9 percent stake in the newspaper. The Swedish Trade Union Confederation kept the remaining 50.1 percent of its shares, and retains full control of the political direction of Aftonbladet's editorial page. The same year, its circulation passed that of long-time tabloid rival Expressen.

Today they are a bunch of fashionable leftists. The usual Frankfurt school PC-claptrap, though they have recently also shown pro-islamist leanings.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 09:12:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

One more thing, the trade unions recently sold all but 9% of their shares to Schibsted. Though they still control director appointments of all the different parts of the paper, and decide its political leanings.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 09:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

"Pro-Islamist!?"

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 12:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

They have a number of columnists who are in love with Hizballah and Iran.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 12:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

How does that evidence itself, being in love with Hezbollah and Iran?

Chanting "Long live Nasrallah" / "Long live Chameini" / "Long live Ahmedinejad"?

Or, perhaps, anything short of considering either anything more than Islamist terrorist nutcases bent on destroying the world?

BTW, would you count me in for writing this and this?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 01:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

BTW, would you count me in for writing this and this?

Of course not. That just looks like in-depth coverage.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 01:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 1)

In which you can find rather few criticisms of Hezbollah...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 01:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Distinctions (4.00 / 2)

I am still trying to work out the distinction between a reactive opposition i.e. one created by direct oppression in some form, and proactive opposition (e.g. I want your territory).

Reactive opposition to oppression is created by that oppression, and thus the 'fault' of its emergence lies with the oppressor.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 02:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

Yes, but refraining from criticism is not the same as support, is it?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 03:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

And confronting negative propaganda against them. How is that different from what your Swedish media persons say?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 01:31:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

You do not take side in the conflict against Israel and for Hamas/Hizballah/Iran, nor do you argue that these entities are doing their best to create progressive societies, nor do you have columnists who argue that the world is controlled by zionist conspiracies or claim that homosexuality is one of the most dangerous diseases in existance, nor do you do your best to blacken the name of other journalists, without giving them a chance of defending themselves.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 08:16:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

Starvid:

Heavily influenced by pro-German staff members, the newspaper supported Germany during World War II.

Aftonbladet was not alone in that, in general Germany had big support in Sweden during both world wars (during the first, there was a court group around the queen who wanted an entry in the war on the german side). German was the second language, german culture was dominating, Germany was were the elite had most connections and so on. So if Germany says that Poland started the war, then they did.

After the war the US replaced Germany as the power to like and lot of personal histories got a make-over. And now, if the US says that Afghanistan attacked them we send troops for the occupation.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 02:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

You don't believe al-Qaida, based in Afghanistan, were the perpetrators and instigators of the 2001 terrorist attacks?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 03:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

You don't believe al-Qaida, based in
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE,... Sudan, Egypt, Morocco, Spain...., in every hunger-ridden, muslim community in the world, including
Afghanistan, were the perpetrators and instigators of the 2001 terrorist attacks?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 04:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

But al-Qaida was not based primarily in Afghanistan, were they had their planning groups, training camps, and leadership, all with the knowledge and support of the Taliban government?

The Talibans got their chance. The US showed a very large restraint, given the circumstances. They asked the Taliban to turn over Osama and company, and then the US would ignore their aiding and abetting of al-Qaida. They said no. Their mistake.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 08:20:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

Well, I doubt you would find hunger-ridden, muslim communities in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE... or Spain

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 09:18:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 1)

Not all-inclusive wording? The implication is that (the crimes of) hunger, poverty and lack of education lead people to unite by belief, find a common enemy, rebel and/or migrate where they may survive.

All I know is that every few months the Spanish police report the arrest of some 'terrorist' cell associated with 'muslim beliefs' and I have seen myself small groups of muslim migrants ---mostly males--- foodless and workless, hiding and barely surviving in remote areas of Morocco (the Rif) and Spain. That does NOT make them terrorists, but the extreme conditions to create conflict, exist in our 'exceptional', western world. There are documentaries about it now, but maybe they don't apply to the 'back woods' of oil-rich countries. (;

I have to wonder how many migrants will be forced to go 'back to nature' now, in exceptionally extreme places like Italy, that criminalizes being poor-without-passport and praises vigilanteism.

The point was, I think, that accumulated misery is going global whether we like it, or not and putting the blame on one country without looking in the mirror is shameful.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 02:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

I hold no particular belief regarding the 2001 terrorist attacks. Truth in muddled and highly political situations rarely comes out until the conflict is no more relevant, and I do not expect it in this case either.

melo makes a good point regarding the nature of al-Qaida. It makes me regret that I did not choose the start of the other world war as comparision.

Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After conducting a criminal investigation, verifying that Germany would honor its military alliance, and persuading the skeptical Hungarian Count Tisza, Austria-Hungary issued a formal letter to the government of Serbia. The letter reminded Serbia of its commitment to respect the Great Powers' decision regarding Bosnia-Herzegovina, and to maintain good neighborly relations with Austria-Hungary. The letter contained specific demands aimed at preventing the publication of propaganda advocating the violent destruction of Austria-Hungary, removing the people behind this propaganda from the Serbian Military, arresting the people on Serbian soil who were involved in the assassination plot and preventing the clandestine shipment of arms and explosives from Serbia to Austria-Hungary.

July Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Confronted with the ultimatum and the lack of support from other European powers, the Serbian Cabinet hemmed and hawed about whether to accept the humiliating terms, or reject it with the knowledge that a war would come^[114]. Finally, all compromise was worked out where Serbia accepted all of the terms of the ultimatum except for the demand that Austrian police be allowed to operate in Serbia, but attached a number of reservations to the other terms^[115].

Of course, we know how that ended:
Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associated Powers and Austria; Protocol, Declaration and Special Declaration [1920] ATS 3

The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Austria accepts the responsibility of Austria and her Allies for causing the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Austria-Hungary and her Allies.

To be compared with:

Portsmouth Herald World/National News: U.S. Jets Pound Targets Around Kabul

Taliban Deputy Prime Minister Haji Abdul Kabir offered Sunday to surrender bin Laden for trial in an unspecified third country if Washington stopped the bombing and provided the Taliban with evidence of the Saudi dissident's guilt. Bush said no.
``We know he's guilty. Turn him over,'' the president said in Washington.

Which would mean that the US is by the standard imposed by England, France and the US responsible for starting the war in Afghanistan. Which no swedish government would say.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 04:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 1)

A swedish kind of death:

melo makes a good point regarding the nature of al-Qaida.

huh? on which thread was that?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 05:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 3)

Sorry, late and poor reading skills.

metavision made a good point...

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 06:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 2)

This one?

Lars Gustafsson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lars Gustafsson (born May 17, 1936) is a Swedish, poet, novelist and scholar. He was born in Västerås, completed his secondary education at the Västerås gymnasium and continued to Uppsala University; he received his Licentiate degree in 1960 and was awarded his Ph.D. in Theoretical Philosophy in 1978. He lived in Austin, Texas until 2003, and has recently returned to Sweden. He served as a professor at the University of Texas at Austin, where he taught Philosophy and Creative Writing, until May 2006, when he retired. In 1981 Gustafsson converted to Judaism.
...
While the problem of identity has been the defining theme of Gustafsson's writings, his social criticism has often vexed the Swedish cultural elite. As a result he is seen as a controversial writer in Sweden rather than as one embraced by the establishment.
...
In May 2009, Lars Gustafsson declared that he would vote for the Pirate Party in the upcoming elections for the European Parliament.

I find he was among the 30 petitioners against the 2001 "UN World Conference against Racism" on grounds that it conducted 'hate speech' against Israel, and participated in the Islamophobia craze, so, unfortunately, he seems to be among the more off intellectuals defending Israel.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 12:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (none / 0)

I've never heard of that guy before.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 08:21:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis (4.00 / 3)

I heard about him in May.

Lars Gustafsson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In May 2009, Lars Gustafsson declared that he would vote for the Pirate Party in the upcoming elections for the European Parliament.^[5]^[6]

He is a poet, big enough to get space in media in questions regarding culture but far from being a household name outside of literary circles.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 08:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pirate Party Finland (none / 1)

I joined the party earlier this year, in a rare outburst of civic responsibility, and to help them get official recognition (recently achieved with 5000 signatures).

I also support their platform:

Complete decriminalization of all non-commercial use of creative works

Shortening the copyright protection to 5-10 years

Abolition of software and pharmaceutical patents

Protection of individual rights, especially privacy and the freedom of speech

Guaranteeing consumer protection in digital trade (as opposed to such schemes as the DRM)

But I was not impressed by the one meeting I attended in order to capture the party zeitgeist. Polymaths, acne and black wardrobes. I suppose I should give them another chance...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 09:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (4.00 / 4)

Sven Triloqvist:

But I was not impressed by the one meeting I attended in order to capture the party zeitgeist. Polymaths, acne and black wardrobes. I suppose I should give them another chance...

From this I would say that all they need would be leadership, organisation, a narrative and some sense of presentation. Is it not good to be needed?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 11:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (none / 1)

Sven Triloqvist:

But I was not impressed by the one meeting I attended in order to capture the party zeitgeist. Polymaths, acne and black wardrobes.

Are you prejudiced, Sven?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 11:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (none / 1)

Only when trinitized.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 11:57:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (none / 0)

I bet you would have considered quite a few of them silly.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 12:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (4.00 / 2)

Read below ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 12:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (4.00 / 4)

You base your impression of political parties onf how they look? You know who looks great? Sarah Palin.

Morons with good skin and great suits are usually the ones who get us into trouble, aren't they?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 12:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirate Party Finland (none / 0)

poemless:

You base your impression of political parties onf how they look?

Call if professional deformation. Sven works in branding. Political parties are electioneering machines. Do the math. Well, don't: between that and your black wardrobe Sven might get a bad first impression.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 12:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course I don't (4.00 / 4)

Anecdotal evidence demands to be embroidered. All anecdotes do. Anyway I'm an entertainer, not a scientist. The only science I'm involved in - and you could hardly call it a science - is that of discovering any individual's or group's general motivations. I deal with people on the basis of my own perceptions of those motivations.

What people say, how they say it and to whom, their dynamic in a group, body language, dress, hair, possessions and so on - all contribute to those perceptions, with some salient features negating and some amplifying other characteristics.

The only thing I have not found indicative of character is RW names. (because they are not chosen by the user). But nicks are.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 12:55:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

SCF: Sweden-Israel kink that became a crisis | 59 comments (59 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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