Oil plateaus | 159 comments (159 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Subsidies (4.00 / 8)

Hi, CH here. Most everything's ok now. Renewables cost too much, even mature onshore wind. Had to get that off my chest.

Also, there's charts and shit in the IEA report about fossil subsidies, here's a wind energy take on it.

Windpower Monthly

Matter-of-factly bitching about fossil subsidies being 5x renewables (well, that's for 2009, so not really current), which include hydro and geothermal.

And of course, i'd like you to meet my elephant, Xternality. He likes quiet rooms and arguments with serious experts, but does get crashy when daylight enters the room.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 04:06:43 PM EST

Re: Subsidies (4.00 / 5)

And they only count direct subsidies, not indirect ones like road construction or military budgets.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 04:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Subsidies (4.00 / 6)

Genau. and gopod forbid we even begin to include health cost effects.

Some analysts (tips the cap to afew) even go so far as "wondering" if there aren't positive, ahem, National Security Implications, to the further development of renewable energies.

And the founder of this site has even been known to claim that another advantage of renewables is long-term cost certainty, which in other financial analyses, is actually a valuable add-on.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 05:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Subsidies (4.00 / 3)

Isn't there another advantage, that windfarms are incrementally scaleable? More turbines can be added in the future if financing is tight now.

Nuclear is only scaleable in very large steps, hydro the same, gas also (I presume the burning/generating plants are hard to add capacity to?). However, wavepower is probably incrementally scaleable.

I have not seen this argument before, but it seems to be a reasonable one. Or I may be way off the technology: perhaps offshore wind farms are limited by geology? Perhaps preparing the site infrastructure for future increments is too expensive?

You experts will know...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Nov 11th, 2010 at 07:13:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Subsidies (4.00 / 2)

You're right for nuclear, hydro and I think, coal. But adding another gas turbine to an existing power plant is probably not a lot costlier than adding a wind turbine to a wind farm.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Nov 11th, 2010 at 09:05:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Subsidies (none / 1)

J, Did you cross-post this diary in the US? I'm interested in seeing the orange reaction.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Wed Nov 10th, 2010 at 02:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Subsidies (4.00 / 3)

Add in a few of the comments from here and I'm sure there'd be the odd aneurysm

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Nov 10th, 2010 at 07:41:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oil plateaus | 159 comments (159 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

Ireland 13 South Africa 8

UNGA: West Censors the South and East

EU VDL State of the Union -- Managing Decay

Rugby World Cup 2023 Week 1 review

Reactionary Visions and eNtiTiES

Sovereignty 2040

Recent Diaries

UA Laboratory NATO First Space War

United Nations In Stalemate Position

Biden's Headache in Middle East: Israel

EU as Client State of Joe's America

Canada's Trudeau Honoring an Ukrainian Nazi Collaborator

Ireland 13 South Africa 8

UNGA: West Censors the South and East

A Tale by Benjamin Franklin

Fail in Democracy Return to Authoritarianism

Yemen From Ceasefire to Peace Talks?

Huge Cost Proxy War of Choice

EU VDL State of the Union -- Managing Decay

Reactionary Visions and eNtiTiES

Top Military War Planning Under Joe Biden - Ukraine

Rugby World Cup 2023 Week 1 review

Joe's Fuck the EU -- Showdown

Modi G20 One Earth, One Family, One Future

Conflict In Syria's Deir Ezzor Province

Sovereignty 2040

Some September Food/Ag Events

Occasional Series