Daniel Cohn-Bendit on Greece | 13 comments (13 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

My apologies Upstate (4.00 / 3)

That was a rant from me, and certainly not directed at you (perhaps at Migeru though). I was staying with the spirit of DCB's speech ; none of the historical grievances can justify the exorbitant military budgets which are a drain on both nations.

I am somewhat aware of the context of Greek/Turkish issues. The subtext is clearly the massive exchanges of populations in the 1920s at the end of the Ottoman empire. Since then, both have had periods of military government, and obviously the military's stock in trade depends on keeping the sense of mutual grievance alive. My sentiment is that the populations of both countries are more than ready to turn the page on the historical grievances, but that they need to break the logjam with respect to the military's inflated sense of its own importance. This is likely to be especially problematic in the case of Turkey, since the military have a very high sense of their role as guaranteeing national sovereignty (and hold considerable economic power to boot).

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 11:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My apologies Upstate (4.00 / 2)

Accepted, no problem.

I am certainly not of a mind to go back to old grievances.

I would point out however that the grievances in this case are freshly laid out and not from bad memories. Most Greeks accept that Allied overreach at end of WW2 triggered the population exchanges, and Greece was part of that overreach. The flip side was what happened in 1915 prior to the Allied invasion of Turkey. Subsequently, the Istanbul pogrom and Cyprus caused more bad feelings.

But there's something really serious going on currently as well, and it dates back from 1922. Turkey entered a peace agreement it didn't like with the allies, and it ceded the Dodecanese and some Sporades islands to Italy. Italy, after its failed invasion of Greece, ceded these to Greece. Turkey has never been happy about that, and it maintains a casus belli against Greece. Turkey threatens war if Greece assumes its international rights in taking complete possession of these islands. Greece has offered to Turkey to take these grievances to international court, but the Turks do not like the initial treaty in the first place.

In other words, Turkey and Greece have a living treaty dispute which may be all the more dangerous because of constant talk of drilling for gas and oil in the disputed territory.

by Upstate NY on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 02:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My apologies Upstate (none / 0)

Most Greeks accept that Allied overreach at end of WW2

That would be WWI, right? Turkey wasn't a belligerent in WWII as far as I recall.

But there's something really serious going on currently as well, and it dates back from 1922. Turkey entered a peace agreement it didn't like with the allies, and it ceded the Dodecanese and some Sporades islands to Italy. Italy, after its failed invasion of Greece, ceded these to Greece. Turkey has never been happy about that, and it maintains a casus belli against Greece. Turkey threatens war if Greece assumes its international rights in taking complete possession of these islands. Greece has offered to Turkey to take these grievances to international court, but the Turks do not like the initial treaty in the first place.
In other words, Turkey and Greece have a living treaty dispute which may be all the more dangerous because of constant talk of drilling for gas and oil in the disputed territory.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Diary-worthy material, perhaps? Certainly, it would rattle some of the locally held prejudices hereabout vis-a-vis Turkey's mistreatment by the EU. And qualified prejudice-rattling can never be an entirely bad thing.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 03:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My apologies Upstate (none / 1)

Yes, indeed, WW1.Sorry.

I can't do better than this wikipedia entry on the so-called "Aegean Issues:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_dispute

by Upstate NY on Thu Jun 10th, 2010 at 01:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Daniel Cohn-Bendit on Greece | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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