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But all of this suggests that we should discuss our future rather than trying to judge Obama

Anyone wanna try this future thing ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 18th, 2010 at 10:44:35 AM EST
I will.

Only global warming and lack of energy transformation is a sistemic problem. The rest can be solved with the proper technocratic people in charge....where by technocratic I mean an Eisenhower Republican (that is , a  radical leftie today).

If the transition to a new energy order is taken as a World War type of effort, the rest, is peanuts and technocratic.

So the future does not looks good, becasue noone seems to consider global warming the catastrophe it is... and the solution to our aggregate demand problem that it is.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 18th, 2010 at 01:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
an Eisenhower Republican (that is , a  radical leftie today)
<sob>

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 18th, 2010 at 01:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
kcurie:
I will.

Only global warming and lack of energy transformation is a sistemic problem.

thankyou.

it is only when we perceive this that we can be of any use, i believe.

it changes everything...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Aug 20th, 2010 at 06:15:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone wanna try this future thing ?

kcurie is right as to priorities. But to enable us to address our problems with the alacrity which they deserve we need to get the millstone of debt, so much of which is the consequence of counterfeit, from around our necks. This boils down to confronting the political power of those who hold the debt. That is why I wanted to let them die back in late 2008 and early 2009 when they were on life support. We need another such opportunity but we need to take advantage of that opportunity if/when it occurs.

However bad the consequences of the collapse of the existing system might be, the consequences of it continuing are worse.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 12:40:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The best way to get rid of secured debt is to convent it to equity IMHO.


Just not equity as we know it, Jim


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 06:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The debt-equity swap, IMO, is appropriate for legitimate debt. But that is not really the problem. The problem is counterfeit debt which is indistinguishable, except in the specifics of its origination, from legitimate debt and which is thoroughly mixed into legitimate debt. And the problem extends to the nature of the financial and regulatory system that facilitated the counterfeiting and the resultant size of that system.

Call me Javert if you will, but LLoyd Blankfein hardly qualifies as Jean Valjean, nor do very many of his colleagues and independent co-actors in our current, sordid spectacle. I do not think we can get beyond this until and unless we have confronted it as a society. In this way, what has occurred is comparable in monstrosity to other great crimes in our history. For purposes of social narrative, some of the most egregious must be prosecuted, some of the ill-gotten gains must be clawed back and some of the odious debt must be repudiated. Then it might be appropriate to deal with the rest via a debt to equity swap, as you propose. To make a debt-equity swap the only significant response would likely discredit the process.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 10:16:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
For purposes of social narrative, some of the most egregious must be prosecuted, some of the ill-gotten gains must be clawed back and some of the odious debt must be repudiated

As you say.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 07:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... whether secured or unsecured, is to tell the creditors to take a long walk off a short pier.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't recommend this policy with some of the people I know. That long walk might be yours and a chicago overcoat might be involved.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 at 02:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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