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Anyone wanna try this future thing ?

kcurie is right as to priorities. But to enable us to address our problems with the alacrity which they deserve we need to get the millstone of debt, so much of which is the consequence of counterfeit, from around our necks. This boils down to confronting the political power of those who hold the debt. That is why I wanted to let them die back in late 2008 and early 2009 when they were on life support. We need another such opportunity but we need to take advantage of that opportunity if/when it occurs.

However bad the consequences of the collapse of the existing system might be, the consequences of it continuing are worse.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 12:40:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The best way to get rid of secured debt is to convent it to equity IMHO.


Just not equity as we know it, Jim


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 06:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The debt-equity swap, IMO, is appropriate for legitimate debt. But that is not really the problem. The problem is counterfeit debt which is indistinguishable, except in the specifics of its origination, from legitimate debt and which is thoroughly mixed into legitimate debt. And the problem extends to the nature of the financial and regulatory system that facilitated the counterfeiting and the resultant size of that system.

Call me Javert if you will, but LLoyd Blankfein hardly qualifies as Jean Valjean, nor do very many of his colleagues and independent co-actors in our current, sordid spectacle. I do not think we can get beyond this until and unless we have confronted it as a society. In this way, what has occurred is comparable in monstrosity to other great crimes in our history. For purposes of social narrative, some of the most egregious must be prosecuted, some of the ill-gotten gains must be clawed back and some of the odious debt must be repudiated. Then it might be appropriate to deal with the rest via a debt to equity swap, as you propose. To make a debt-equity swap the only significant response would likely discredit the process.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 10:16:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
For purposes of social narrative, some of the most egregious must be prosecuted, some of the ill-gotten gains must be clawed back and some of the odious debt must be repudiated

As you say.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Aug 21st, 2010 at 07:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... whether secured or unsecured, is to tell the creditors to take a long walk off a short pier.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't recommend this policy with some of the people I know. That long walk might be yours and a chicago overcoat might be involved.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Aug 22nd, 2010 at 02:24:25 PM EST
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