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Irish pushback strategy - we get mail | 305 comments (305 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (none / 0)
As far as I understand Irish politics, it is probably the same family. And I would not trust the word of member of the current government. Next they will blame the sidhe.
by IM on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 02:03:36 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (4.00 / 4)
As far as I understand your comment, it's bigoted. And it happens to be wrong in this instance, too.
Ahern was born into a family that had no association with party politics. ...

...

In late 1994 Bertie Ahern (no relation) succeeded Albert Reynolds as leader of Fianna Fáil.



Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 02:29:17 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (none / 0)
Not bigoted. Irish politics do have a problem with to many political dynasties.

And you are defending a liar. The same wikipedia article showed me that Ahern was on November 15th still claiming: There is no bail out.  

So I why should I trust his claims now?

by IM on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 03:12:24 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (4.00 / 2)
Irish politics do have a problem with to many political dynasties.

So much for collective democratic responsibility.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 03:57:58 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (none / 0)
Is that an Ireland only exception or do think all democratic states are not democratic in true sense, so their citizens are just subjects, not do be made responsible for the mad antics of their overlords?
by IM on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 04:06:43 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (4.00 / 2)
There is a misunderstanding of the structure and nature of citizen responsibility for their government in the western democracies. Let me illustrate:

Osama:

  • The US government is guilty of thousands of murders of Muslims around the world, in actions of imperialist intent [True]
  • The US government is elected by the people of the US, in free and democratic (usually) elections [True]... THEREFORE

  • I can inflict personal punishment on individual US citizens because of they share a collective responsibility for their government. So it's OK to blow up the twin towers because that's the only way I can punish (random) Americans for their complicity in their governments machinations, because of which all of them have enjoyed perks like cheap oil forever.

Now the premises of the argument are true, but the conclusion does not follow. Citizen responsibility is a different sort of responsibility than criminal responsibility and can not be addressed by an international equivalent of a penal system. Before you say that this is physical punishment, I assure you that the results of ECB/IMF policy in the EU and Ireland will be very physical for many people, most of which were the people at the bottom of the ladder, the least responsible for whatever their banker overlords had indeed decided. In fact should Ireland not default, those least affected by the depression that will ensue will be the buggers at the top who were most implicated in and most responsible for this whole debacle.

How's that for justice?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 at 08:27:53 PM EST
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Re: Irish pushback strategy - we get mail (none / 0)
Good question. I agree that collective punishment against citizens of a democratic state is justified. But not in every case. Democracy is after all based on individual rights that majority vote cannot nullify. In this case we are talking after all very much about housing, and that is, or at least should be, in the realm of individual rights. (And of course economic collective punishment in practise never punishes collectively)
by kjr63 on Mon Feb 7th, 2011 at 08:06:27 PM EST
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Irish pushback strategy - we get mail | 305 comments (305 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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