Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
I agree with him mostly.

What is i.e. "Worker's control?"

Replacing an economic oligarchy with a political oligarchy? And why there is no such companies? No one forbids to establish such companies, with "worker's control." And why do governments not distribute land to people in western democracies? Because majority does not want that. Not "left" nor right.

by kjr63 on Sat May 28th, 2011 at 08:33:48 PM EST
There are such companies. There are a couple locally.

There are very few such corporations, for a variety of reasons - not least of which is lack of start-up funding and general hostility from the ownership class, with lack of material ambition possibly running a close second.

It's likely that someone as persistent and annoying as Richard Stallman is going to have to invent an OpenBusiness model, and spend all their time promoting it.

Chris Cook has one model for this, but from what I've understood of his ideas there's no explicit commitment to worker participation and democracy.

I expect there are alternatives, but I haven't spent enough time researching this to know what they are, or how they work.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun May 29th, 2011 at 11:01:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The principal problem with Co-ops is that they almost invariably use genetically modified forms of Joint Stock Companies.

So firstly, they always have the principal/agency problem with management.

Secondly, they have a severe problem with access to capital, since borrowing puts the business at risk, and as with any mutual their only other source of capital - without relinquishing control - arises out of gradual accretion of surplus.

But since a worker co-op like John Lewis - not really a perfect example, because it was philanthropically endowed with assets by John Spedan Lewis at the outset - tends to distribute surplus to workers in one form or another (which is fine); and retail co-ops tend to distribute surplus to customers (the 'divi' - which is also fine) then retained surplus tends to be low.

In order to survive and thrive in the modern world, Co-ops have tended to become increasingly corporate, and the risk is that they are run by and for the management. That is less likely in a worker Co-op, but pretty much the norm in a retail co-op (eg the UK Co-ops, particularly the big ones) or in a producer Co-op eg NZ's Fonterra, or other agri-co-ops like Arla.

The management of these beasts are always on the look-out for a management buy-out/flotation etc, and sometimes the members go for the short term windfall and long term screwing which results.

The approach I have evolved - and it's probably moved on a bit since we last discussed it, TBG - is essentially to create a Co-operative of Co-operatives within an associative framework agreement.

In this model Labour works with, not for, Capital, and there is no principal/agency problem because management share the gross revenues or production with staff and investors.

See Partnership Finance

If it's not participative and democratic, then the workers don't subscribe to the agreement.

Simples.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue May 31st, 2011 at 05:59:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The argumet that if it is good, it would exist already is at is essens a conservative argument. Applied in a different time it could be an argument for any dominating economic model. It also supposes that politicla pressure is not brought to bear in order to benefit the dominating economic model.

Like the abolition of Yugoslavia's workers councils (that I would be interested to hear about how they worked from anyone with experience. vbo?)

Economy of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1990s, IMF effectively controlled the Yugoslav central bank. Its tight money policy further crippled the country's ability to finance its economic and social programs. State revenues that should have gone as transfer payments to the republics and provinces went instead to service Belgrade's debt with the Paris Club and London Club. The republics were left on their own to survive. From 1989 through September 1990, more than a thousand companies went into bankruptcy. By 1990, the annual GDP growth rate had collapsed to a negative 7.5 percent. In 1991, GDP declined by a further 15 percent, while industrial output shrank by 21 percent.[31]

The reforms demanded by Belgrade's creditors struck at the core of Yugoslavia's system of socially-owned and worker-managed enterprises. The objective of the reforms was to privatize Yugoslav economy and to dismantle the public sector. Instead of rebuffing the reforms, Yugoslavia was desperate and could not refuse their demand.



Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Sun May 29th, 2011 at 03:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The argumet that if it is good, it would exist already is at is essens a conservative argument.

No, it isn't. There is no law against worker co-operatives, so it's not a question about "economic model." Not a question of "political economy," just about one particular form of organisation and a no-issue.

Should all companies be "worker co-operatives?" Why, if somebody wants otherwise? I prefer liberal democracy, individual liberty.

And even if, there still would be the same finance, real estate and resource markets that would rob blind these co-operatives. Production organisation does not address the core issues of land and finance.

by kjr63 on Mon May 30th, 2011 at 07:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
kjr63:

No, it isn't. There is no law against worker co-operatives, so it's not a question about "economic model." Not a question of "political economy," just about one particular form of organisation and a no-issue.

I do not think there was any law against paying your workers in Rome, yet slave labor ruled, proving its superiority over wage labor. There was probably no law against corporations in medieval Europe, proving the superiority of the feudal system. So yes, it is at its core a conservative argument.

That something is legal is only a subset of the conditions necessary for an organisational form to thrive. Just to pick an example I am familiar with: in 1931 it was not illegal to form a co-operative bank in Denmark, but in 1933 it became illegal.
JAK members bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The co-operative society Jord Arbejde Kapital was founded in Denmark during the Great Depression in 1931. The society issued a popular local currency which was subsequently outlawed by the Danish government in 1933. In 1934 it founded an interest-free savings and loan system and a Local Exchange Trading System. Though both systems were forced to close, the savings and loan system reemerged in 1944.

Economy is politics with other means.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon May 30th, 2011 at 07:43:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But of course there were stunningly successful companies in Europe in the 1300s. In Genoa and Florence and Germany there were joint stock ventures, family controlled companies, and international banking corporations.
by rootless2 on Mon May 30th, 2011 at 10:27:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series