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I give another concrete example. If you buy something you need from the markets and the price of that object is it's production costs, you then receive your own labour value in exchange to other people's labour value.

However, if you pay 50% of your labour incomes rent and interest and other financial costs, you receive only 50% of your labour value from the markets.

All we need is to liberate ourselves from these unearned increments (rentiers and monopolists) and with modern technology we all could live free, equal, just and wealthy life.

by kjr63 on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 08:47:34 AM EST
..and don't underestimate the amount unearned increments in market prices. They are hidden in the system hundreds of ways. And the neoliberal academia works hard every day to keep it that way and growing.
by kjr63 on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 08:57:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All we need is to liberate ourselves from these unearned increments (rentiers and monopolists) and with modern technology we all could live free, equal, just and wealthy life.  

Hah, let's not go in to the fantasy world, hahaha
I am asking in these circumstances what is to be done so that we avoid total collapse. Something that CAN be done realistically and that we people can applaud governments for doing it?
As I am watching economic analysts here every day, their comments are darker and darker and predictions very grim. Seems like it's now either huge inflation (and eventually collapse) or default of USA and EU countries falling like dominos (and collapse sooner or later).As for EU seems like they are trying to find way to let all the others default except UK, France and of course Germany (and maybe Scandinavia)...But they are all attached on a same rope and "stone" is pretty heavy and will soon reach bottom of the "swamp".
So according to analysts collapse is unavoidable sooner or later , one way or the another...I saw the other day how in UK they have machines ( like money machines) but instead of money they give you small plates of gold...why do they need it? Is it going to be our money?
I have million questions because I never experienced crises this huge in capitalism...I know nighter did you but at least you have some experience and knowledge from your ancestors...
When I asked people in New Zealand how was it during the crises in 1987 ( I think) they told me : "Everybody you know had lost job...many people lost their houses...it was dangerous to walk CBD cause rich  were jumping from those high buildings"...OK maybe they exaggerated things a little.
And it was market crash...now we have banks very much exposed...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 09:55:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, fantasy world indeed.

In these circumstances? Debt restructuring.

The real solutions are however long term.

by kjr63 on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 12:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am asking in these circumstances what is to be done so that we avoid total collapse.

I see my proposals as completely compatible with kjr's. Ironically, for a true solution to our current difficulties, one that is sustainable, the danger is in doing too little to change the existing system rather than too much.

The problems with compound interest are only further compounded by the criminality which our current system regularly encourages. We need to eliminate the the incentives to criminality along with the opportunities. Our current problems with banks are the direct and understandable consequences of having allowed about half of all supposed real estate financial assets in the system to be bogus or counterfeit. Even the most honest, creditworthy borrower who bought at the top of the real estate bubble has a loan half of the value of which is bogus -- as they have discovered to their sorrow.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 02:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
criminality which our current system regularly encourages

You are right...They do not even realise how dehgerous this is.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 06:45:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw the other day how in UK they have machines ( like money machines) but instead of money they give you small plates of gold...why do they need it? Is it going to be our money?

See two years ago

Long attracted to the safety of solid gold, Germans will soon be able to sate their appetite for the yellow metal as easily as buying a chocolate bar after plans were announced on Tuesday to install gold vending machines in airports and railway stations across the country.

...

"German investors have always preferred to hold a lot of personal wealth in gold, for historical reasons. They have twice lost everything," said Thomas Geissler, the owner of the company, who hopes to install "Gold to go" machines in 500 locations in German-speaking countries this year.

"Gold is a good thing to have in your pocket in uncertain times."



Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 23rd, 2011 at 05:31:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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