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Problem is that it feels like people really want to believe that the finite-planet problem is the cause. It's not at all clear that it is. Oil prices quite possibly acted as a trigger, but virtually anything could have given how unstable the system configuration was - and the problems are far bigger than necessary given how stupid the political configuration was.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:15:22 AM EST
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That sounds rather like you're getting inside people's heads and attacking what you imagine they are thinking, rather than what they are actually saying. This "Green austerian" meme is a strawman.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:48:09 AM EST
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The green austerians don't exist? The ones who want to see a world of hobbits don't exist? Really?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:08:21 AM EST
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Well, if you're talking about ecologists who advocate economic contraction, I've already linked some of them above, and I'm sure you can find plenty of articles in The Ecologist and so on. However :

  • I don't see why it's useful to bracket them with the Hayek school of economists, who want to shrink government spending; and
  • I don't see any of them posting on this site.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:34:20 AM EST
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The Hayek school of economics is based on the idea that recessions are the deserved pain for living beyond our collective monetary means.

The ecological austerians want to argue that the current recession is the inevitable pain for living beyong our planet's thermodynamic means.

Both are hangover theories and they share a common conceptual and, yes, moral, frame.

Both are actually wrong in my opinion.

Note that I am not arguing that if there's an ecological collapse in mid-century it won't be an inevitable consequence of ecological overconsumption. I'm just arguing that we actually have the human and material resources to turn around, simultaneously, both the employment situation and the ecological situation.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:41:20 AM EST
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I really agree with this. I get it all the time. Sure, I really worry about Peak Oil. All the time. For god's sake, I'm even on the board of ASPO Sweden. But I can't see that the current crisis was caused by lack of resources in general or oil in particular. Maybe $148 oil was the trigger, at most.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 03:52:39 PM EST
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