Chorus: Austerity doesn't work | 70 comments (70 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Strawman alert (4.00 / 2)

He's advocating austerity in that he's saying that pain is unavoidable. In that, he's playing into the enemy's frame.

Economic pain is not unavoidable. Greek parents giving their children up to orphanages is not an unavoidable consequence of peak oil. FFS.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:34:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, obviously. (none / 0)

The problem is that you apparently see things purely in terms of a propaganda war; while I see the debate of ideas as being useful in itself.

It's a simple fact that increased oil prices in recent years have impacted the standard of living of the vast majority of Europeans (Norwegians excepted).

Denying this fact on the basis that other factors have caused greater impacts on standards of living, would be rather unsound. On reflection, I don't think this is what you are doing. Rather, I think you are trying to censor all mention of any other causes than Europe's self-inflicted financial crisis.

I don't find this useful.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, obviously. (none / 1)

We can discuss peak oil and declining standards of living, let's just please not do it in the hangover frame.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 11:49:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, obviously. (none / 0)

OK, and you have determined that I have an ecological hangover. By telepathy perhaps?

Migeru:

The ecological austerians want to argue that the current recession is the inevitable pain for living beyong our planet's thermodynamic means.

I object to being bracketed with what you term "ecological austerians", and your insistence on controlling what can and cannot be debated. After all, it is you, not I, who introduced the "hangover frame", in which I have no interest.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, obviously. (none / 0)

Are you arguing that the current recession is the inevitable pain for living beyong our planet's thermodynamic means?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Certainly not. (none / 0)

On the contrary, I am objecting to being bracketed with such people, as you are attempting to do in an apparent attempt to disqualify me from debate.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Certainly not. (none / 0)

I am not bracketing you with such people. I am just claiming that Jerome and Eric Zencey among others come too close for comfort to arguing that. You disagree. I have made that point in their diaries, repeatedly. This whole subthread started because of your

Thomas:
I really wish people would stop shilling austerian visions in the name of ecology
Who is doing this exactly?

I also did not do you the disservice of reacting to your bracketing me with Thomas by saying

(I will not do you the disservice of bracketing you with Thomas the cornucopian sf fan)

(Yeah, this is a case of you using excusation non petita as a way to bracket me with cornucopianism while claiming not to be doing it).

By the way, you're free to argue in a biblical literalist frame, too, but I would object to that frame as well, and I would not care in the least if you claimed I was oppressing you for objecting to that frame. After all I am just objecting, not suppressing your ability to argue.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I didn't expect the ... (none / 0)

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 02:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Certainly not. (none / 0)

How can you then claim I am bracketing you with what I call "economic austerians" since you don't even want to call yourself that?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Chorus: Austerity doesn't work | 70 comments (70 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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