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The Hydrogen dream | 49 comments (49 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Methanol (none / 1)
European Tribune - The Hydrogen dream
And finally, whenever I reflect upon hydrogen I'm always somewhat baffled on why molecules like ammonia (heavier) or methanol (heavier and less hazardous) aren't preferred as energy carriers.

I don't know about in general, but at least in Sweden there is some projects to use forest-produced chemicals as biofuels, among them methanol for the purpose of using them as liquid fuels. I think the general idea is that forestry has better EROI then agriculture.

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by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 05:01:07 AM EST
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
Well, most of these proposals amount to converting the waste products of foresty operations to fuel, not dedicated energy crops. As such, the EROI is nigh-infinite - the energy is used regardless to produce timber, and then you turn the garbage you wind up with into fuel. This logic only holds as long as your supply of sawdust ect does, tough. Coppicing entirely for fuel was abandoned for good reasons.
by Thomas on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 05:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 1)
You can't use waste products from forestry to do that, at least not in Sweden, as we fuel all our local CHP-facilities with forestry waste and or municipal garbage. IIRC we even import garbage from eg Poland.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 05:30:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (4.00 / 2)
Black liquor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
New waste-to-energy methods to recover and utilize the energy in the black liquor have been developed. The use of black liquor gasification has the potential to achieve higher overall energy efficiency than the conventional recovery boiler while generating an energy-rich syngas from the liquor. The syngas can be burnt in a gas turbine combined cycle to produce electricity (usually called BLGCC for Black Liquor Gasification Combined Cycle; similar to IGCC) or converted through catalytic processes into chemicals or fuels such as methanol, dimethyl ether (DME), or F-T diesel (usually called BLGMF for Black Liquor Gasification for Motor Fuels). This gasification technology is currently under operation in a 3 MW pilot plant at Chemrec's[7] test facility in Piteå, Sweden. The DME synthesis step will be added in 2011 in the "BioDME" project, supported by the European Commission's Seventh Framework Programme (FP7) and the Swedish Energy Agency.[8]

This is a form of waste, though the paper mills has been using it for energy since the 30ies. However given the needs of liquid fuel for transport and the mills being stationary the paper industry is looking into new energy models. The paper mills often own energy companies to handle their needs and sell of their excess. Maybe paper will be a by-product of black liquor fuel industry down the road?

There is also Värmlandsmetanol in Värmland, though I don't know if they also go by way of Black liquor or if they plan to use some other chemistry.

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by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 02:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (4.00 / 2)
Depends on what you grow. Salix - a type of willow is planted for energy in Sweden.

Willow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Energy: Willow is grown for biomass or biofuel, in energy forestry systems, as a consequence of its high energy in-energy out ratio, large carbon mitigation potential and fast growth.[12] Large scale projects to support willow as an energy crop are already at commercial scale in Sweden,[13] and in other countries, others are being developed through initiatives such as the Willow Biomass Project in the US and the Energy Coppice Project in the UK.[14] Willow may also be grown to produce Charcoal.

But I should add that I am not up to speed on the Salix-debate.

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by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 03:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
But I should add that I am not up to speed on the Salix-debate.

So you're Salixy-late?

by njh on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
I give up. I don't get it.

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by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 04:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
Salicylate Toxicity
Salicylates are ubiquitous agents found in hundreds of over-the-counter (OTC) medications and in numerous prescription drugs, making salicylate toxicity an important cause of morbidity and mortality
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 04:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
:)

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 04:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (none / 0)
Indeed, and the term does indeed come from willows - the active ingredient in willow bark is salicylic acid and was named for salix, the latin word for willow.  (acetylsalicylic acid is asprin)
by njh on Thu Feb 2nd, 2012 at 12:58:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Methanol (4.00 / 2)
Yes, because coal was cheaper than coppice wood and not restricted to a fixed sustainable harvest.

Even if coal is not cheaper all up, the fixed sustainable harvest still applies, which suggests that the ideal role of coppice biocoal in a sustainable energy portfolio is as a readily storable firming energy source, with the main energy supply from harvesting volatile energy sources such as wind and solar, and the firming energy source allows it to function as baseload and scheduled load.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jan 29th, 2012 at 12:21:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Hydrogen dream | 49 comments (49 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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